No more than 6 people indoors or out

Another who agrees that alcohol loosens inhibitions. A licensee said he had seen people hugging in groups after a drinking session. Inevitable really.
Disappointed to hear people talking and saying they had no idea what the rules are now. How can we ever get this virus under control when people don't even know what they should be doing.

Grandad1943

If we are to once more get a grip on this infection then the outside the home consumption of alcohol must be eliminated.

It has been well demonstrated that public drinking and abiding by the Covid-19 rules do not go together.

They tried that in South Africa. Unfortunately, people just carried on drinking in groups behind closed doors and some people even died from drinking bootleg alcohol.

NfkDumpling It's not newsworthy when a system works perfectly, whether it's NHS, education or anything else.

A couple of weeks ago, a school near me had to close because it had nine infected staff. Thankfully, no pupils seem to have been infected, but over a hundred of them are still self-isolating, as are contacts of the infected staff. It seems PHE, the NHS and the local authority all got their act together very quickly and the outbreak has been contained.

That's all how it should be, but it can only work well if the systems aren't overwhelmed by hundreds of cases and people co-operate.

qq it’s about the order you play the notes in ?

Boris is too slow to lockdown, that's wrong. Boris locks down too much, that's wrong too.

I’m now thinking that ere long, we’ll be looking back wistfully at the rule of 6 and saying do you remember when we could meet up with people other than those we live with? ‘

It seems that the main reason for the recent outbreak at Banham Poultry in Norfolk was not due to any failing in the factory but to the way the workers live. Many are Europeans coming here just to make as much money as possible and go home, so their accommodation is crowded, cheap and leaves a bit to be desired.
Although the factory is in Attleborough, they live in Norwich, Great Yarmouth and Kings Lynn and travel to and from work in shared cars (admirable in normal times).
There's also a language problem. Many English speakers can't understand the rules so trying to translate them into Romanian or Polish when you have only basic English is very hard.
There's been no publicity about the fact that Test, Track and Trace worked pretty much perfectly despite local media trying to pick holes. One person got ill, was tested, the department was closed and cleaned and everyone tested and isolated. The figures went up and then down again as the spread was nipped in the bud.

If we are to once more get a grip on this infection then the outside the home consumption of alcohol must be eliminated.

It has been well demonstrated that public drinking and abiding by the Covid-19 rules do not go together.

We will be keeping to the six and continuing to mask up, wash hands and socially distance. As so many others are not doing as they’ve been asked/keeping to the law I think it’s inevitable we will all, at some point, enter further lockdowns. Maybe those not adhering to the rules will be ok with that, or the loudest complainers, I can’t control others behaviour, but it’s disappointing.

Furret

Oh thank you for your wonderful explanation grandad. I hadn’t realised any of that and I’m very grateful for you pointing it out to silly old me.

No problem at all Furret. ?

Oh thank you for your wonderful explanation grandad. I hadn’t realised any of that and I’m very grateful for you pointing it out to silly old me.

It is being strongly speculated by the BBC today that fresh "national Covid-19 restriction rules" will be announced next week. Many workplaces and all schools will remain open in these plans but all hospitality and entertainment venues will be ordered to close.

I am wondering if such places as hairdressers etc will be allowed to remain open, but we can only wait and see.

My own view would be that a second complete national lockdown is required so as to protect the essential supply chain followed by a slow gradual reopening of various sectors allowing each time a sufficient period to view the effect on the national infection rate before further reopenings.

Perhaps this time the pubs will be the very last to be allowed to reopen as those places I feel are at the very heart of the sharp rise in the national infection rate.

Furret Quote [Security of essential industry supply has to be paramount, for all else is dependent on that.

Patently incorrectWhy have we seen so many outbreaks in meat processing plants

Do you just make it up as you go alonggrandador are youseriouslysuggesting you know more that the BBC.] End Quote.

Furret do you ever stop to think on what you are stating prior to making a post with all its normal personal affronts???? As it appears not perhaps I can explain to you how today's food distribution systems and centres operate.

The meat processors that you illustrate above produce just one consumer requirement, meat products, that go alongside all we purchase in regard to our total food requirements on a daily basis.

Those meat processors deliver their products to very large distribution centres operated by the supermarket chains which in the course of every day will make up just one or two of the hundreds of HGV vehicle deliveries from different product providers which again make up all that consumers require.

When one supplier is unable to provide its products, as in the case of the closed down meat processors due to Covid-19 infection, then others suppliers step in to meet the that demand and the output of those distribution centres continue as normal with all demand met as per their input and output schedules.

However, should it be that a widespread Covid-19 infection was to come about among the hundreds of workers that those distribution centres employ and the centre itself has to be closed then that brings about a complete block in the supply chain area the centre supplies too......nothing in nothing out.

All the large supermarket chains operate no more than six to eight of those huge distribution centres to supply the whole of their retail outlets throughout Great Britain. There is built-in redundancy to the systems, that should one centre "go down" the two or three of the geographically nearest centres can take up the output of the closed or partially closed distribution centre.

That stated with Covid-19 infection rates rising at the rate they have been in the last two weeks there is a great risk that a Covid outbreak may be incurred in more than one centre simultaneously and in more than one supermarket chain and in that sets the real risk to Britains food supply cycle.

So, Furret perhaps you now understand how large scale food distribution is carried out in Britain and in that what I was explaining in my post @08:16 today.

Why does it matter what other people get away with? That's exactly how toddlers think.

The point is how much risk any meeting is for the individuals concerned and how it could contribute to community transmission.

I dare say someone else has posted about the change.org petition, to exempt younger children, same as Wales and Scotland. I’ve duly signed it.

Yesterday after school a dd had a friend and her two young children round - the family had recently been in quarantine for a fortnight - but with dd’s two elder plus baby, that made 7 of them.

Meanwhile my son in law and the other dad went to play tennis, followed by the pub!! So it’s all right for them to go to an almost invariably busy pub, but not for their wives and 5 children from 8 months to 6, to get together?

Generally we’ve adhered pretty strictly to the rules, and haven’t objected, but I won’t swear that dh and I are going to observe this one, not when it comes to seeing Gdcs together.

GrannyGravy13

Exactly growstuff that is why we are adhering to the rules.

I seriously think people need to use their common sense. I would turn a blind eye to two households with seven people, especially if all the people had had minimum contact. The trouble is that so many people do seem to lack "common sense" and seem to delight in bending the rules and arguing the toss about why they're justified. It really is like a bunch of primary school kids.

If everybody had "common sense", rules wouldn't be needed - same as the Highway Code (and, yes, I'm as irritated as anyone for being done twice for speeding - 33mph in built up areas).

This is today's KCL Covid-19 tracker map. It shows estimated cases, based on individual reporting, but it's always been quite accurate and has correlated well with official figures.

It shows that nearly all the UK north of a line from the Severn to the Wash has infection rates from 1000-5000 per million ie over 1 per 1000, in some cases much higher. (The dark red areas are 1000-5000 per million). Areas such as Glasgow and Leeds are blank because the data is incomplete, not because they have zero rates.

If you think about that logically, the chances are that four secondary age pupils have a high chance of having been been in contact with somebody who's infected - and that's before adding siblings and other family members and their contacts.

Exactly growstuff that is why we are adhering to the rules.

I find some attitudes really childish. Just because somebody else does something unfair and gets away with it or the rules themselves are unfair, doesn't justify an action as fair or sensible.

If children from three households mix, they will have had direct contact with all the other children in their schools/nurseries and their parents, who might have contact with dozens of people at work. Potentially, that's hundreds of people.

In an area of high transmission, the chances are quite high that one of them has come in contact with somebody who is infected and could be infected themselves (maybe asymptomatic). It is precisely that kind of scenario the "rule of six" is trying to minimise.

biba70

growstuff ''Maybe people could support the spirit of the "rule of six" rather then trying to find anomalies and loopholes ... ''

I totally agree- but then it should start with the Government and their cronies- that would really help, no?

As an aside, how can an activity which is illegal, be exempt?!?

I stopped looking at this government for role models or moral leadership long ago.

Sorry for the diversion but ...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGxSM5y7Pfs

Callistemon two siblings are at the same nursery, two are at separate primary schools, one at senior school and a baby.

If us adults want to get together ten of us could arrange to be in work on the same day? (We have organised work so that this doesn’t happen, but it wouldn’t be illegal under current laws)

I really do not understand the thinking behind totl lockdowns. Okay, back at end of March/early April it was to stop the hospitals being overwhelmed. But, despite the numbers testing positive at the moment, that does not seem to be a problem.

Deaths are rising now, despite the government's attempts to fiddle the figures with the 28 day ruling. Hospital admissions are rising and even if deaths are being prevented with a better understanding of effective treatments, an increase in patient numbers will still put a strain on the NHS, especially when you take into consideration winter flu and the inevitable result of other life threatening conditions having been kept on the back burner for so long.

Surely, the emphasis should be on getting a proper testing system, whereby anyone can get a test near to their homes within 24 hours and the result within twelve hours maximum. This would mean that that people can continue with their jobs, children can continue going to school (obviously assuming they get a negative result).

Of course it should. I'm hoping that the quick and inexpensive saliva tests which are being explored and developed at the moment will prove to be effective. They would make such a huge difference. But even if they turn out to be a non starter a more efficient testing regime would be a vast improvement.

Just because the over-whelming majority of the public were so obedient the first time round, do not think it will happen again.

I think that Cummings (and other high profile figures) put paid to that. It may not be logical for people to say 'If they can do it, so can we', but people aren't always logical, are they?

Please god let them stop office Christmas parties

We do now have to check if/when any of us are going to the local park to avoid accidental meet ups of over six.
Do they all go to the same school, GrannyGravy?

seven children cannot go and feed the ducks but thirty adults can go and shoot them
They could here where we live!
First I have to find some extra children - do they have to be related to me or can I borrow some?
No English children, though, only Welsh or Scottish please.

I really do not understand the thinking behind totl lockdowns. Okay, back at end of March/early April it was to stop the hospitals being overwhelmed. But, despite the numbers testing positive at the moment, that does not seem to be a problem.

Surely all that happens is that numbers fall, - ease lockdown, and numbers go up. Like we are on hokey cokey (In -Out) and a hiding to nothing.

Surely, the emphasis should be on getting a proper testing system, whereby anyone can get a test near to their homes within 24 hours and the result within twelve hours maximum. This would mean that that people can continue with their jobs, children can continue going to school (obviously assuming they get a negative result).

Perhaps if the testing system was brought back to public (now, as now private- serco) ownership, it might improve..

Just because the over-whelming majority of the public were so obedient the first time round, do not think it will happen again.