Scottish government Covid briefings on the BBC

There are dyed-in-the-wool unionists and there are staunch independence supporters, and for both these groups their views will not be changed by any form of argument or debate. They are entitled to their views, no matter how we disagree with them, or think that their perspectives are skewed. Then there are those in the middle, who decide what their views are on the evidence and facts that are put before them. I believe that’s why its so important to refute all the fake news, and misrepresentations, like Granny23 says. Then people can make up their own minds.

I’ll refute SueDonim’s claims, as Jane10 asked. Not for those at either end of the spectrum, but for those who are open to understanding both sides of the argument.

1) If you don’t like the way that education is run in Scotland, vote for somebody other than the SNP in May. Then vote for someone other than the SNP after independence as well.
2) We can use whatever currency we like. This argument goes back at least 7 years and is designed to make people afraid. Alistair Darling said live on TV in 2014 that Scotland could continue using the pound. Its our currency too, you know.
3) Europeans who live in Scotland have made a commitment to the country and contribute directly to its finances and its cultural environment. Personally, I don’t have any strong feelings either way about Scots-born having the vote. Freedom, come all ye.

I’d be prepared to consider independence if I thought there was anyone competent in Scotland to administer it. Sadly, I don’t, be they SNP or anyone else. I voted Yes to Devo in 1979 & in the post-1997 Labour landslide Scottish referendum.

Sad to say, Scotland hasn’t lived up to its potential since then, (which no doubt the SNP will blame on Westminster even though Scots abounded in the UK government) and I have no faith that they can administer independence.

Jayt it’s standard practise to refer to countries’ leaders by their surnames.

Crikey, so it's the "too stupid" part of the meme that you subscribe to. Like I said, entirely your prerogative, but I came back to Scotland after several years living abroad and saw huge differences in the country.

We won't agree.

Except when it’s ‘Boris’ everyone’s mate of course.

Wrong. I’d say they’re far from stupid, they’re self-interested.

I too came back from several years abroad and saw the difference. Poorer education, poorer NHS, lack of progress on deprivation, poorer public services, removal of local services. Also more racism and division.

Sue I genuinely don't recognise the Scotland you describe. Where the heck are you?

NE Scotland, from where many services have been removed from to the Central Belt as well as deterioration in the health service, the schools and so on. Holyrood doesn’t act in the interest of the NE even though they are greedy for our whisky and oil.

Anyway, I’m bored with this, we’ll not agree, and I am off to enjoy some time with my family.

I'm from the NE too, I don't share Sue's views. Just goes to show that a person's perspective can be so important. I remember the place in the sixties, we're significantly better off now than we were then, in practically every way.

And as they say in the NE, I'm away for a fly cup

Just about everywhere’s better off than it was in the 60’s.

I’m with others on this thread.....there is no need whatsoever for a daily briefing from NS. Even leaving the politics (and yes, there are politics!) out of the equation a daily drip feed of doom, gloom and death is so damaging to our mental health and overall wellbeing. What if there is never a vaccine? All those who are have been scared into staying in - are they going to continue to spend the next few months/years isolated indoors? What exactly is it that people are waiting for and why is watching NS every day essential to this? There isn’t going to be a blinding revelation.accompanied by a thunderclap and suddenly all this is over. Life - albeit somewhat different - is still there for living and yes, having fun. I cannot understand why people need a daily ration of bad news and depressing statistics. This pandemic has taken over our lives, our actions our very thoughts. Time we put it in a more appropriate place, stick to the guidelines (readily available from many sources not just NS) and live life as best we can.

You mean a fly and a funcy piece Alegrias!! Another n’easter here?

Katek

You mean a fly and a funcy piece Alegrias!! Another n’easter here?

I had a bittie sponge - it was affa fine!

Well I 'd say I 'm from the NE too - just not as far N!
Maybe some are missing the heady days of the oil boom and the soaring property prices which we didn't experience.
Down to earth with a bump?
(Or maybe not)

For anybody that is interested, the BBC are apparently showing FM briefings this week. They have said it is because the University and Colleges are returning, numbers are rising and the continuation of local restrictions.

That’s interesting ptar my guess is that someone has ‘had a word’ and quite right to.

I've never recognised some of the posts on here about Scotland,its a far better place than it was before Devolution and we have many many talented intelligent politicians .Perhaps Sue could explain why if education is sooo bad she sent her children to Scottish universities and med schools ....just curious ?Are the unionists on here happy to see WM attempting to dismantle Devolution and put an UNELECTED tory Lord in charge ? Is being Tory more important than democracy to them? Does the vote by 75% of the Scottish population count for nothing ?

Alegrias you too need to check your facts:
1 GERS is GERS. Derek Mackay decided to bring something in - no idea what- but whatever it was it was quietly dropped by Kate Forbes this year and never mentioned . Go look it up.
2. See here for the overall national debt:
www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bulletins/ukgovernmentdebtanddeficitforeurostatmaast/march2020#:~:text=General%20government%20gross%20debt%20was,on%20the%20excessive%20deficit%20procedure.
and I think you'll see Scotlands share of it is less than 10% so £13b is a reasonable figure.
3. It's not about voting for the SNP or whoever. The truth is we don't have the manufacturing infrastucture to survive, whisky won't keep us alive and the North Sea is dead. I worked in the oil industry and currently what comes out of the North Sea id 90% water as the wells get near the end if their life. West Shetland will go the same way eventually.
4. NS is good at spin because nearly 50% of deaths due to covid were in care homes . The Scottish Government told the NHS to empty beds and it turns out the knew there were covid positive cases identified prior to discharge - widely reported in the press and backed up by a personal friend high up in the social work department. NS is good at what she does - very good.
5. Totally agree.
6. The extra taxes don't mean we live in a fairer society. I'm still wondering what exactly they've done with the extra penny in the pound they take off 'rich' people because I don't feel rich.

So if Trident goes paddyanne what will replace if for the workforce in that area. I come from West Dunbartonshire and it is an extremely deprived area. If the SNP close Trident what will replace it? Having said that I'm not a huge fan of nuclear weapons but there is no plan/ How will they support all these. 'The number of jobs directly and indirectly supported by Faslane is just under 11,000; this comes from the 6,500 military and civilian personnel employed at HMNB Clyde and a further 4,000 created through the supply chain and the local economy according to an EKOS report commissioned by Scottish Enterprise Dunbartonshire.' from here ukdefencejournal.org.uk/fact-check-many-jobs-depend-faslane/#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20jobs%20directly,commissioned%20by%20Scottish%20Enterprise%20Dunbartonshire

You seem very knowledgable stewaris it’s refreshing to hear an opinion that is so well researched.
Thank you.

Over to the Scottish grans here ...

Stewaris I understood that the forward planning for the future of Faslane was widely known in Scotland but has obviously not been widely reported in the MSM. The plan is (and has been for many years) to convert Faslane - a superb deep water port - into the Scottish Navy's main base. This will not be a hugely expensive enterprise as most of the necessary infrastructure /facilities are already there. A naval base will support as many jobs as Faslane has done and tourism will again flourish when the threat of a nuclear incident has been removed from the area.

Also, with trident gone there will no longer be a ban on harvesting the oil that is known to be beneath the Irish Sea (nor a danger from submarines to fisheries in the area)

The Scottish navy

Stewaris I’m happy to debate you on facts, it makes a nice change from some of the dogma and ridicule that appears here sometimes. This is going to be a long post, buckle up everyone.

1 My issue with GERS is not in the way its calculated, but how its used. As I said I’m not an economist so I won’t comment on the metric, other than to say that the headline figures that are quoted in the MSM would be different if we had an independent economy. Might be better, might be worse, but it would be different.

2 I asked someone to explain it and you have, thank you.

3 I was making the point that voting for independence doesn’t mean voting SNP. There are Labour voters who would like independence, Green voters, Lib Dems and everything else. The discussion has evolved into whether a Scottish economy is viable. I worked in manufacturing industry for most of my career so I understand how that has been affected, and clearly the oil and gas sector is in decline. However the Scottish economy doesn’t consist of whisky and oil alone. We have to build a broad base economy whether we are independent or not. Some examples:
a. Software industries like those currently flourishing in Tayside; gaming, medical software, app development, IT services
b. Advanced manufacturing such as companies in the space sector; Gore, AAC Clyde Space, STAR-Dundee
c. Renewables
d. Education
e. Creative industries; theatre, arts, festivals – all of which have unfortunately taken a huge hit this year with the pandemic
f. Food and drink, especially the luxury end
g. Tourism and Travel

If we stay in the Union and don’t do this, we become a net drain on the economy of the Union and have to go cap in hand for support from Westminster. I don’t relish that, I’d rather exist on our own talents. Sadly, there have been comments earlier in this thread that show that some people think we don’t have any talents for running our own country.

4 There were many mistakes made at the start of this pandemic, by all governments. NS has apologised for the care home situation, along with anything else that went wrong (Reported in the Dundee Courier, August 20th – The Courier is not known for being supportive of NS in general) When people bring up the care homes, I have to ask, do you really think she wanted people to die? Do you not think that this will be on her conscience for the rest of her life?

5 Common ground – great ?

6 Scotland has a progressive tax system. People earning less than about £27k pay less tax here than in the rest of the UK (reference fullfact.org, an independent fact checking site.) If you earn more than that you pay more, on a sliding scale. We have a more generous benefits system – free prescriptions, personal care for the elderly, nursery places, no university fees. So the “rich” aren’t being victimised, the better off pay more tax to benefit the less well off. I support that approach and have more faith that my pension will be safe in this system than in less progressive ones, such as that south of the border.

Paddyanne, the eduction system in Scotland has changed beyond recognition in the six years since my dd left school. She was in the penultimate year to take Standard Grades and since the introduction of Curriculum for Excellence Scotland has been sliding down the world rankings. No parents of secondary school age children that I know of are happy with the current system, they feel their children’s education is being narrowed and is much shallower than the education they received.

I think Scotland’s universities are still world-class but they are being deprived of financial resources so it’s a concern as to how long they will be able to continue at this level. One of my sons is a senior London academic and he hears worrying things from other academics about higher eduction in Scotland

Let’s also not forget the 14,000 well-qualified Scottish youngsters who were deprived of a place at a Scottish university. So much for their ‘no fees‘ education when they can’t even get into a university in their own country.

Well we've kind of morphed into an independence thread so I feel the need to post this. The Daily Express website today have an article headlined "Ewan McGregor mocked for presenting BBC Battle of Britain after Scottish independence plea". Apparently people who support independence aren't allowed to talk about the Battle of Britain, because that was when Britain stood alone and obviously that's incompatible with freedom of opinion. Funny, that's what I thought my grandparents were fighting for. Along with the pilots from 15 other Commonwealth and Nazi-occupied countries. I'm livid.