The Tories biggest trick: convincing us they have a plan

I do wish my iPad didn’t think it knows better and alters some of my words!! Hope it makes sense

They have many plans.

Use Covid-19 to cull the elderly and ill. Win win situation in their view. Get rid of nuisance old people clogging up spaces in care homes which then can be given to other old people who will get infected and die. This cycle will free up NHS beds, cut medication costs, free up GP's time and, most importantly, reduce the amount of money being paid out in pensions and other benefits aimed at the elderly and/or long term ill.

Get the children back into school so that parents can return to work or go back out into the shops more often. Again this solves the childcare issues for parents and takes away any excuse to not return to work even if they feel it isn't safe to do so. Children may or not be super spreaders of Covid-19 but they're certainly super spreaders of everything else. Winter is coming so add colds, flu and norovirus to the mix and you have the perfect storm as they happily share it with anyone they meet including the elderly. More culling and parents back at work.

The parents will catch the illnesses from their children and share them around at work. More people ill but working because they can't afford to stay off so spreading the germs even more. More culling.

The perfect storm that could hit this winter will overwhelm the NHS. Then they can say that it obviously can't cope and bring in the private sector (even more than is there already) and privatise it. We've already seen how they give contracts to their mates who have no experience of the medical industry. This will simply increase exponentially.

Add to this the Brexit fiasco. Well is it really a fiasco? What if people don't fall for the 'we're beating Covid-19/best in the world' line? They might blame the government. So let's absolutely cock Brexit up but put all the blame on the EU. The media will run with this line and play upon the xenophobia of many. They'll get a rise out of enough people to keep themselves from being blamed. If they break the Good Friday agreement and the troubles flare up in Ireland again they will blame the IRA.

I could continue but I'm sure you get the idea.

Please dont forget the power grab from Devolved Nations ,there will be no "power"of any use left if it goes ahead.Our faith is in the courts in the forst instnce and our hope in Independence next year .Westminster must remember the Treaty of Union wasn't a Deed of ownership.That is how they've treeated it for over 300 years ,the old whats yours is mine but whats mine is my own system.
Just a thought but IF we cost 14BILLION a year and the EU cost 9Billion a year why are they ditching the EU and not Scotland .Couldn't be that they LIE about the facts ,could it?

Michael Duggan

So many messages from friends & colleagues across Europe - saddened by the depths of dishonour & real risk of harm into which Brexit & Johnson have plunged the UK.

Gist of my reply: if you're saddened looking in, imagine what it's like for the poor sods who have to live here...

The Independent puts it in 8 words: 'Boris Johnson has made a mess of Brexit.' Too true. This is the one thing he has stood for all along and he is failing in it - mightily. All that talk of the oven-ready deal and nothing being easier than getting Brexit done was well before the Covid virus was a distraction. How dare he now say it was done in too much of a rush?

The prime minister now seems determined to 'walk away' first, before the EU can walk away from him. What a come down! How can his red wall MPs and those who voted for them forgive him for dragging us all into the mud?

The phrases that come to mind:- Bread and circuses, smoke and mirrors. Ye gods and little fishes, what 'reality' do the right-wing here and especially, in the US, live in? It's more like a fantasy that reeks havoc on the populace and helps neither country. I don't understand the cult-like following that has arisen.

I do not believe that Johnson and the Tory party ever stated they had a plan on the run up to the last General Election. They won an eighty seat majority on the back of the slogan "Get Brexit Done".

The Labour Party had a stated policy of entering into further negotiations with the European Union and whatever the outcome of those negotiations would be placed in front of the British electorate for acceptance or rejection. Should the foregoing be a rejection, then Britain would remain as a member state of the European Union.

However, under the United Kingdoms first past the post electoral system the voters choose the Johnson slogan solution to our Eu membership and we are now where we are.

So, we can now only wait as an electorate and nation to see what is to come in this no forward planing scenario.

But that was just what the General Election vote gave Johnson the authority to carry out, that being to fumble forward without any real plan.

No deal will put independence on a plate for the SNP.

Whitewavemark2

No deal will put independence on a plate for the SNP.

So, it will place independence on a plate for the SNP.

Unfortunately in voting for a no plan "Get Brexit Done" scenario at the last General Election that independence for Scotland was an option that very much opened up once again.

Had some of the now "oh so fervent Labour supporters" on this forum had got behind Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour EU plan at the last General Election this nation would not be in the situation it finds itself in now.

Also, the Labour Party would not be facing financial insolvency at present and a huge loss of membership.

It should be remembered that Kier Starmer is to address the TUC conference on Tuesday @11:00am. That address is being viewed by many in the Labour Movement as the most important speech that has been given by a Labour Party leader in over one hundred years.

The future of the Labour Party and the wider Labour movement may rest on what Starmer states.

Last night I watched Lucy Worsley's programme "Royal History's Biggest Fibs" about Queen Anne. I studied that period o history at school and so knew a lot of it. What I didn't know was how some of the Scottish nobles were bribed to support the Act of Union, allowing themselves to be ruled by England, after hundreds of years of proud existence. So I now feel sorry for them and hope that they achieve their independence.

The "Labour Movement" might think it's the most important ever, but I don't suppose many other people care.

growstuff

The "Labour Movement" might think it's the most important ever, but I don't suppose many other people care.

I believe many who "could "not care less" at present in regard to what Starmer states in his speech to the TUC Conference may very much learn to care if the TUC decide to end its funding of the Labour Party.

Think about it.

Grandad

'Had some of the now "oh so fervent Labour supporters" on this forum had got behind Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour EU plan at the last General Election this nation would not be in the situation it finds itself in now.'

I think that most Labour supporters on here would have voted for the LP in the last election, even if they weren't supporters of Corbyn.

I joined the LP after Corbyn won his first leadership election. I was impressed by the way he spoke at the small press conferences that were televised - his belief in the Labour movement came across strongly. Increasingly I found myself defending him against friends who are long standing members, who regularly attend the local party meetings and who hand out leaflets, canvass etc etc. Despite their dislike of him they continued to work and of course voted Labour.

The people that didn't vote Labour - those people behind the red wall hadn't been fervent supporters for a number of years. They are unlikely to vote Labour any time soon

Dinahmo, it is now well accepted that many on the right within the Labour Party did not support the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn even though he was elected to that position with the largest majority and total vote ever received by any party leader.

Indeed it is alleged that there was a considerable number within the Labour Party Central Office that actively acted against Corbyn and even worked to prevent a Labour General Election victory in 2018.

Corbyn had (and still does hold) huge support among the affiliate members in the wider labour movement, and that is causing large problems for Kier Starmer at this present time.

Therefore those on the right within the Labour Party whether they are activists or just direct members will perhaps now learn that support for the democracy of the overall movement is paramount if the Labour Party is to exist into the future in its present form.

grandad I can’t understand why you don’t start a new thread about your perceived treachery by the right in the Labour Party. That way you can develop your argument with some sense rather than irritate those who are debating the treads title.

It is a bit weird that you keep posting on threads which don’t relate to your argument at all.

You will come back as usual to say that you are entitled to post on any thread which is true.

But it doesn’t make sense.

Whitewavemark2

grandad I can’t understand why you don’t start a new thread about your perceived treachery by the right in the Labour Party. That way you can develop your argument with some sense rather than irritate those who are debating the treads title.

It is a bit weird that you keep posting on threads which don’t relate to your argument at all.

You will come back as usual to say that you are entitled to post on any thread which is true.

But it doesn’t make sense.

As you acknowledge I can and will post on any political thread I wish in regard to the Labour Party as that party and movement is the only reasonable alternative to the present government and therefore all aspects and problems that exist in that party should be up for discussion.

I also find it somewhat weird Whitewavemark2 that you start thread after thread in condemnation of a government that was overwhelmingly elected to office only eight months back and in which there is little prospect of a change of government within the next four years.

Therefore should those that continuously post and proceed as if all is correct and honest in the Labour Party were to join the rest of the Labour movement in acknowledging all the wrongs that have come to light and in that join with those that wish to ensure such can never happen again then that would be a very large step forward.

The alternative to the above will be a very divided Labour Party (should it still exist in its present form) entering the next General Election with perhaps those on the left of the party not supporting or even working against the leader.

If you continue to hijack other threads you'll find that people will simply start to ignore your posts no matter how relevant they are to the current state of the Labour Party and/or the country. I'll happily debate the Labour Party past, present and future with you on a thread set up for that purpose but not one that has been started on a completely different subject.

So did Baldrick ----a cunning one.

vampire queen, since the last General Election and even more so since the leaked internal report on the alleged actions of the right-wing in the Labour Party has been revealed several threads have been initiated in regard to the matter.

However, those that are now such fervent supporters of Starmer, who incidentally very much gained from the undermining of Jeremy Corbyn, refuse to engage in those threads or admit that such action by the right in the party may have even possibly taken place.

So, why let them off the hook so readily when the matter can be thrown in front of them in their own Starmer worshipping or Johnson condemning threads.

Would those in the Labour Party who wish for the whole possibly illegal matter to be swept under the carpet, have the Labour Party remain totally divided and undermining of Starmer taking place in the next General Election campaign.

In the above, those that wish to bury the matter had better believe that the left in the party and wider movement are not about to let this issue rest without there being a clear resolution.

However, should any forum member wish to initiate a thread on the current state of the labour party, will. happily post in that thread if I am not working.

Grandad1943

vampire queen, since the last General Election and even more so since the leaked internal report on the alleged actions of the right-wing in the Labour Party has been revealed several threads have been initiated in regard to the matter.

However, those that are now such fervent supporters of Starmer, who incidentally very much gained from the undermining of Jeremy Corbyn, refuse to engage in those threads or admit that such action by the right in the party may have even possibly taken place.

So, why let them off the hook so readily when the matter can be thrown in front of them in their own Starmer worshipping or Johnson condemning threads.

Would those in the Labour Party who wish for the whole possibly illegal matter to be swept under the carpet, have the Labour Party remain totally divided and undermining of Starmer taking place in the next General Election campaign.

In the above, those that wish to bury the matter had better believe that the left in the party and wider movement are not about to let this issue rest without there being a clear resolution.

However, should any forum member wish to initiate a thread on the current state of the labour party, will. happily post in that thread if I am not working.

It is you that keeps banging on and on about the unions and Labour Party and threatening fund withdrawal.

You start it!!

Whitewavemark2, the withdrawal of funding by the trades unions to the Labour Party is a situation that may well happen as Len McCluskey.has now twice pointed out. Therefore to carry on as if there are no problems in the Labour Party whatsoever is cloud cuckoo land stuff.

The funding the unions gave to the Labour Party, it is alleged, was used against the persons and policies those union members who every week or month subscribed to the Labour Party from there wage deductions wished to have promoted.

That is totally and utterly disgusting if the matter is as strongly alleged true. However, some would wish it to have that situation just brushed under the carpet which makes them no better than those that it is alleged carried out the action.

Grandad and his mates, who would rather scupper the country and leave it in the hands of Johnson and ERG ... makes me feel so angry for our country and our children and grandchildren- as he offers no hope whatsoever - just banging on for the sake of it.

... and I say this as a Union member and Union Rep for decades.