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Today's Commons debate

(238 Posts)
mcem Mon 14-Sept-20 18:18:23

Have you ever seen such an example of hopeless squirming embarrassment as Boris Johnson's pathetic performance?
Well done, Ed Miliband for showing BJ as a useless apology for a PM!

Dinahmo Thu 17-Sept-20 12:34:37

GG13 Funny, I thought that you were berating others (ie scold or criticize)

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:38:33

Letter sent to Johnson warning him that the USA will not tolerate the breaking of the GFA

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:31:47

He hasn’t remotely changed has he?

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:29:30

I do wonder about Johnson’s health.

Boris Johnson now saying he doesn't remember making a 10m Moon Shot target that he made in public

Whitewavemark2 Thu 17-Sept-20 07:15:30

Interesting post.

Indifference is indeed the order of the day.

The EU doesn’t need us and is rapidly coming to the conclusion that it doesn’t want us either.

This winter is going to prove very interesting.

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 23:40:53

For a bit of light relief I've been looking at the latest Westminstenders thread on Mumsnet. Someone has posted a google translation of a long article from a 'conservative' Spanish newspaper about the current UK threat to renege on the Withdrawal Agreement. It's interesting as we rarely get the perspective of EU member states on here. Mumsnetters are more far ranging.

It's very long but I think that many of the Brexit critics will find it interesting.

It starts from their reaction to the aftermath of the Referendum. This is some of it. It makes the point that the UK got rid of most of its EU experts who could have given sound advice and help during negotiations.

I read today an article on "El Confidential" a conservative Spanish newspaper which explains the feeling about Britain and Brexit these days. Indifference.

From wrong beliefs to miscalculations: Brexit enters the impasse
The UK has misjudged its cards and has embarked on a move that could end in a no-deal Brexit. Far from getting attention, indifference has deepened

What surprised the most about Brexit in its first years of negotiation was the lack of preparation of the British team . No one had understood the Union better than the United Kingdom. They had the best diplomats, the best technical experts, and therefore the best cards within the community bloc. London would be was going to be the loser in negotiating with the Twenty-Seven, but it could make things difficult: they were still the best negotiators in Europe .

The amateurism and lack of preparation surprised many. At each step taken, London measured poorly, made mistakes, had unrealistic perspectives or simply did not understand the consequences of what was being negotiated. It is true that Brexit is the result of a revolt that precisely sought to oust experts , true diplomats or politicians who were not manifestly committed to the Eurosceptic crusade.

When we thought that Brexit had already given its all, the new season returns more powerful than ever. Olly Robbins, a henchman who was put at the forefront of negotiations by former Prime Minister Theresa May as the UK walked off the cliff, managed to earn the respect of the Union, but at home he had to deal with the 'Brexiter' coven in that he was one of the greatest traitors to the country. This is how the United Kingdom lost what would have been one of the key players in a negotiation that is probably much better managed: Sir Ivan Rogers, the ambassador to the European Union between 2013 and 2017 and one of the people who best understood the negotiations. Accused by conservative party radicals to be an EU sympathizer above his commitment to the government, Rogers resigned .

That is why, and in the midst of the crusade of Boris Johnson's new Tory party center of power, led by his eccentric adviser Dominic Cummings, against Whitehall's line of good technical experts and diplomats, it should not be completely surprising what has happened in recent years. days.

There's much more, of course...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/4021700-Westminstenders-Pah-International-Law-Who-needs-it?pg=23 scroll down about half way.

There's also a link to the Spanish original if anyone wants to read it.

Some of the ensuing posts are interesting, too.. There's an account on p24 of exchanges involving Lord Keen (before he resigned) in the House of Lords. Reading them I suspect that he resigned from acute embarrassment at having to defend the indefensible in the Lords; he wanted no more of it.

biba70 Wed 16-Sept-20 20:45:52

which no-one has ever denied sad ? have they ?

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Sept-20 20:42:57

MaizieD I was pointing out that anyone has a right to post on the political threads whatever their political allegiance.

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 20:38:07

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD please clarify what I have made up?

Posting that Ug had a right to post on here. As if we'd told her that she hadn't.

suziewoozie Wed 16-Sept-20 20:34:31

Yes Jaber when it comes to facts, I have a very high and justified opinion of myself. Opinions are one thing but lazily posting unchecked ‘information’ is quits something else. Bring careful with information is not about intelligence however but about respecting truth. However, given that it’s mostly Johnson supporters tha are more likely to post wrong information they are of course, emulating their hero’s default behaviour.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Sept-20 20:23:40

MaizieD please clarify what I have made up?

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 20:11:05

GrannyGravy13

I was not berating others MaizieD

You're making things up, though...

biba70 Wed 16-Sept-20 19:50:06

What about the 90 days rule? Isn't that breaking the Law? Just wondering.

Urmstongran Wed 16-Sept-20 19:45:40

I’m blushing here! So many lovely comments & I wasn’t fishing for them - honestly.

I will try harder to check my facts. (I was always a bit lazy though when it came to homework - less motivation!). Mind you opinion pieces in various newspapers are just that - opinions. Pin a tail on a donkey anyone?
?

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Sept-20 18:10:41

I was not berating others MaizieD

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 17:49:10

GrannyGravy13

Urmstongran has every right to post her opinions on the political threads as do any members of GN.

Nobody has said that she hasn't the right.

It's ridiculous making up things to berate others about.

MaizieD Wed 16-Sept-20 17:46:54

Telling someone that their intelligence is lacking, is ,well, rude arrogant and not acceptable!

I don't think that suziewoozie said that. She just suggested that Ug check her facts.

If anyone referred to her intelligence it was Ug herself, earlier today

I don’t have the intelligence to solve the conundrum of the Irish question.

And, as far as I can see, nobody has suggested that she stopped posting. (Unless you can find it and quote it for me...)

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Sept-20 17:43:11

Urmstongran has every right to post her opinions on the political threads as do any members of GN.

lemongrove Wed 16-Sept-20 17:41:00

Urmstongran

I must like the challenge Jaberwok!

I know I irritate most of the posters on here. I may not be as intelligent as they but I’m sure my small offerings give grist to the mill. Without me (and a minority of others) this would just be another echo chamber!

Urmston ?never confuse intelligence with posters being a
‘Know -All’ which means they google most things in any case.
It makes me laugh how a few comment authoritatively on every subject under the sun.

Thought today Johnson did rather better at PMQ’s which are not his forte at any time, he is never angry/rude/ hectoring etc with a woman, so the LP missed a trick there, they should have elected a woman as LOTO ( but then they have never done that.)?

Jaberwok Wed 16-Sept-20 17:28:04

sooziwoozi. You do seem to have a very good opinion of yourself especially on the academic front! It's a pity you lack good manners and humility to go with this high IQ! Telling someone that their intelligence is lacking, is ,well, rude arrogant and not acceptable! It lets down your superior education - big time!

Grandad1943 Wed 16-Sept-20 17:20:26

A thread and forum without Urm would be no forum at all. ?

You just keep posting. ?

Jaberwok Wed 16-Sept-20 16:40:42

Ooooch! Sooner you than me Urm!!! ??

Jaberwok Wed 16-Sept-20 16:37:10

Of course it's up to you Urm! You cope better with sneers and jeers than I do! Nice to see you Grandad! Hello and Goodbye as I'm seeking a more pleasant less confrontational thread to post on, Pets anyone?!!! Good luck Urm!!! and Lemon!!?

suziewoozie Wed 16-Sept-20 16:36:40

Utm but checking your facts sometimes would help - your posts are sometimes quite cavalier and you are not always polite. ( but then neither am I but I’m much better on facts)

Ilovecheese Wed 16-Sept-20 16:32:03

You are unfailingly polite Urmstongran I am sure you are as intelligent as any of us. You don't flounce off in a huff. So you carry on posting.

I don't agree with your views, but would not dream of telling you to not bother posting them.

As you say, who wants an echo chamber? not me!