Another Brexit "benefit"

I'm completely lost forpolitewords...

Why Maizie, what is your experience of those who move abroad? I was employed in Europe to settle ex pats into the country and the system, so I am speaking from witnessing their hopes, dreams, expectations, disappointments etc. Can I not justifiably make an observation?

Bodach

"Really? I never knew!"
Dear Ashcombe, your response reminds me of the old tale about the Free Church of Scotland minister preaching to his flock about the Day of Judgement: "Sinners will be cast into the Eternal Fires of Hell, crying, 'Oh, Lord, Lord, we didnae ken!'; and the Lord in his infinite mercy will look down on them and say, 'Ah weel; ye ken the noo!' "

I am delighted that you, at last, ken the noo.

It’s interesting that you pretend not to recognise the irony in my post.

May I suggest the Metro Bank and I agree with varian post. Leavers should hang their heads in shame.

I’m holding my head high. Sorry.

Spangler it's good that you are content but millions upon millions of people want to engage with world in different ways from you. If you've never seen a Euro note, I assume that's shorthand for never having been in a Euro country? My life would be missing something if I hadn't experienced their cultures.

Ellianne

I'm completely lost forpolitewords...

Why Maizie, what is your experience of those who move abroad? I was employed in Europe to settle ex pats into the country and the system, so I am speaking from witnessing their hopes, dreams, expectations, disappointments etc. Can I not justifiably make an observation?

The question was for Maizie but I'd like to give my view. I've lived in other several countries, both EU and not. I've never been considered by people there as an "ex-pat" and in my experience it's only UK people who use this misleading term. Ex pat if you're British going there, migrant if you're coming here.
I've also observed that there is a general perception that those labelled expats are the ones who live in a country but never engage with it, for example those who live in UK enclaves in Spain.
It should be remembered that many people, including it seems many Gransnetters, move to other countries to experience a wider world, and are certainly not disappointed when they do that.

Ellianne 'The irony of course is, that they know very little about the politics, history and culture of the country they living in, and therefore see it all through rose coloured spectacles!'

yes, there are some- perhaps too many. Most in areas where there are so many Brits, and where some, perhaps too many, tend to live parallel expat lives - so I agree- but only to some extent. You cannot lump all expats (immigrants) in one big lump - some of us moved because we know the politics, history and culture, and have come to love it all. And also know a lot about our own politics, history and culture- and languages. Just because someone chooses to go and live abroad for part of their lives, does NOT mean they have rejected their own (history, culture, etc). It is quite possible to love both, in their own way, not to wear rose tinted glasses, and to be critical of both, when required, and see the pros and cons in a positive way. Many of us have chosen to live in areas where there are very few expats (immigrants from UK) - because we want to experience the culture and history to the full.

I agree with you Alegrias. I did spend a year in Germany as part of my degree. My daughter, who studied history and economics, would have liked to have spent time in Germany or France, but her language skills weren't up to it, so she spent a semester in Dublin as an Erasmus student. My son, who can speak German, would like to spend time abroad, but sadly it looks as though he won't be able to. Living and working abroad broadened my mind and enriched my life in a way nothing else could ever have done.

The reason British students often can't study in an EU country is because they don't have the language skills, although some universities are now offering courses in English. European education systems usually mean that pupils study a foreign language (usually English) from primary school and they have to continue until they leave school and be assessed as part of the final exam.

Well said, biba.

I also think that people who need to seek help to understand the country and the systems are maybe not representative of the whole group. In our experience there were some people who moved around when we did (2005) who did struggle to settle in, but to be honest most of them didn't stay very long. In my experience those of us who are still here are pretty rooted in our local communities. It may be different elsewhere.
We would always describe ourselves as migrants, ex-pats are people who work in another country on a temporary basis, surely?

Interesting and I concur that time spent abroad is invaluable, particularly when young. That is when we are open to new experiences, are less judgmental and soak up the culture more readily, (and even fall in love with the natives as someone here said, me too!!)
The more tricky situations arise with those who follow the dreams shown in the tv programmes. I have known expats knock the UK purely from their reading of the daily mail on line!

Unfortunately, some ex-pats knock the EU (including the country where they are living) from reading the Daily Mail online. It's all in the tradition of the people who used to work in the old Empire or, more recently in the Middle East or North Africa. They have no intention of integrating or even learning a foreign language.

Ok migrants, sorry.
My doctor in France once asked me, "Why do all you Brits dislike and complain about your own country so much?" That was her perception from those of her patients who were from the UK.

growstuff

Unfortunately, some ex-pats knock the EU (including the country where they are living) from reading the Daily Mail online. It's all in the tradition of the people who used to work in the old Empire or, more recently in the Middle East or North Africa. They have no intention of integrating or even learning a foreign language.

Agreed. Some people would be the same wherever they ended up living/working.

The question was for Maizie but I'd like to give my view.

I'm not answering. I thought it was extraordinarily arrogant and patronising.

I'll leave it to our Gnetters who choose to live abroad to comment if they wish to. They might not feel, though, that they are in any way obliged to defend their choice of country to live in or to defend their knowledge of the country they're living in.

I think like anywhere Maizie, there are all sorts of different people living out of their home country for all sorts of different reasons. Some of us speak the language and are heavily involved in local life, others are not. There are things I love about the UK and things I love about France. Normandy never feels very far away from the south of England where I grew up.
Somebody once said that rural France is great for old farts who like gardening. That's us. ?

Yes <3

Maizie I wouldn't feel any different if I lived in a different part of the UK from those with which I'm familiar. For the last 40 years European borders have been largely irrelevant, so I'd feel just as "foreign" if I were living in Northumberland as I would if I were living in parts of mainland Europe.

Ellianne

Ok migrants, sorry.
My doctor in France once asked me, "Why do all you Brits dislike and complain about your own country so much?" That was her perception from those of her patients who were from the UK.

That's one person. French people living in the UK aren't uncritical about France either. I actually think being able to look at oneself and country critically and satirically is a sign of human intelligence - unless one wishes to be a sheep.

I have a son who did his whole degree in the Czech Republic. ( A country we had no connection with)
He now works for a global company in Prague.
There are many large corporations still recruiting for English speakers to work across Europe.
Opportunities are still available.
Brexit will only be an obstacle if you allow it to be.

growstuff

Maizie I wouldn't feel any different if I lived in a different part of the UK from those with which I'm familiar. For the last 40 years European borders have been largely irrelevant, so I'd feel just as "foreign" if I were living in Northumberland as I would if I were living in parts of mainland Europe.

Many years ago we gave a lift to a hitch hiker when we were travelling to visit friends near Hexham. He had a Glaswegian accent and we are southerners. He couldn't understand us and vice versa. Just like visiting a foreign country.

On holiday in France some 40 years ago we joined a tour of a local abbaye in the Languedoc. The rest of the tour were Parisians. They couldn't understand the guide who spoke Occitaine and nor could we.

We have come across people here who moved from the UK in order to get away from the migrants from west and east. One such woman was complaining about migrants here in France. She was taken aback when an English friend explained that we are all migrants.

Missfoodlove

I have a son who did his whole degree in the Czech Republic. ( A country we had no connection with)
He now works for a global company in Prague.
There are many large corporations still recruiting for English speakers to work across Europe.
Opportunities are still available.
Brexit will only be an obstacle if you allow it to be.

Happy for your son. The company I used to work in here in Scotland had a European technical call centre which employed around 20 native speakers of European languages. As well as English, obviously. Its closed now because most of them felt they couldn't stay here any more and we found it impossible to recruit replacements. The call centre is now in France. And the cultural and financial benefits we used to have here are gone.
We all have anecdotes, from both sides.

^ so I'd feel just as "foreign" if I were living in Northumberland as I would if I were living in parts of mainland Europe.^



I can tell you that I felt pretty foreign when I moved from Essex to Yorkshire..

I just can't understand people's apparent resentment that folks don't elect to stay put in their country of origin. As if it's a crime to want to go anywhere else. And if you do, you become an outcast and no longer have valid opinions/interest in your birth country.

Or worse, it's somehow traitorous...

Free movement was a wonderful thing.

As a French resident for about 10 years and as another post asks why we chose to live in Europe I would give the following reasons

1. I was brought up in Dorset in the fifties. Rural France reminds me of that time.

2. Our last 20 years in the UK were in rural Suffolk which is a county that I love. Because of rail communications (or lack of) it is still relatively unspoiled and I had thought we'd return at some point. Now I'm not so sure.

3. Large parts of France are beautiful and not as densely populated as England and I am lucky to be able to live here.

4. I like all forms of music but the French early 20th century composers are my favourites - Ravel, Debussy, Satie, Faure etc.

5. My favourite paintings are by French artists. Again early 20th century - Picasso and Matisse being top of the list. On our various holidays in France we have visited the homes and galleries in different parts of France where they lived.

6. We live in hamlet just outside a small village. The village and surrounding hamlets comprise 600 people of whom 19 are English. There are also Dutch and Belgians.

7. As regards politics our French friends and acquaintances are fairly clued up on UK politics, perhaps more so than many English people. They especially liked John Bercow and would imitate him given half a chance. They are shocked and bemused at what is happening to the UK.

8. Since I first came to Europe on holiday I have felt an affinity with it and I am extremely sorry that we have left the EU. The French are critical of the EU but they wish it to remain in place. That has a lot to do with being invaded twice in the 20th century and their biding wish is that Europe remains peaceful.