Going to university in 2020

"growstuff, there will be some students who are completely alone because of the way their student accommodation is set up but the majority are in shared flats. Normally there are number of students with their own bedroom but there are shared cooking facilities. They can either combine to get online deliveries or, if they are stuck in their room like my son was, the others in the flat can get stuff for them. Places like Amazon (students get a 6 month free trial) can deliver in a very short time. Washing is different if you actually have to isolate but the majority of students will bounce fairly quickly and won't need a great deal of clothing for a 2 week isolation. Obviously those who are more ill should get support."

How are young people away from home for the first time supposed to know all that and be able to organise it?

Please do not patronise me! I do actually know of what I speak, having had an experience about which do not wish to speak. Pastoral care in some universities (Leeds Uni I'm looking at you! You nearly had a suicide on your hands!) is sadly lacking.

This was all so predictable and the staff should have been better prepared.

Sorry, x-post SueDonim.

Dunbartonshire and Lanarkshire numbers are significantly less than Glasgow City. Average daily cases in Dunbartonshire just now is less than 20, in Lanarkshire its 70. In Glasgow City its around 160. Glasgow City continues to rise, the others are more stable. All data from the Scottish Government website.

Sorry, that's Greater Glasgow and Clyde, not Glasgow City.

It’s not just Glasgow, though. Dunbartonshire & Lanarkshire have been rising for weeks now. What’s behind that?

Cases per 100,000 in Glasgow City took off a week ago, shortly after the students returned. Its not the students fault, but there is a correlation.

For those scapegoating students in Scotland let’s not forget that Covid has become rampant in the West of Scotland for the past few weeks.

That hasn’t been caused by students, because they weren’t at university. It’s been caused by Joe Public not obeying the rules. Glass houses and all that.

I think the Scottish Uni's are having basic food delivered to the accomodation ,saw one girl on TV this afternoon with half a dozen bags of shopping ,her complaint was she didn't get to choose what was in them !!

It would have been a lot better if people had used their common sense and realised that this virus is going to be around all over the winter and probably beyond.. If they had thought about it they could have taken a gap year and just not gone to uni, they could have gone to a uni nearer to home and lived at home. This is probably just one year out of their lives, they will still have time to live away and party, but no they just carry on regardless. I don't really have any sympathy for the students, they had choices and they are young enough to have plenty of time in the future. Its the usual I must have regardless. Paddyanne you are right.

Nannan2, there are no lectures yet because most students haven't started the term, it has been Freshers Week where they don't get lectures. And don't think my son hasn't had the lecture about mixing, learning from this, etc. He made his choice and had to live with it, just as we all do. He also was made aware of how lucky he is to have escaped a serious case but the reality is, most students will probably escape the serious cases.
growstuff, there will be some students who are completely alone because of the way their student accommodation is set up but the majority are in shared flats. Normally there are number of students with their own bedroom but there are shared cooking facilities. They can either combine to get online deliveries or, if they are stuck in their room like my son was, the others in the flat can get stuff for them. Places like Amazon (students get a 6 month free trial) can deliver in a very short time. Washing is different if you actually have to isolate but the majority of students will bounce fairly quickly and won't need a great deal of clothing for a 2 week isolation. Obviously those who are more ill should get support.
Grandma70s, sadly the courses running today seem very different to ours. Last year in his first year as an Economics student, all lectures were recorded and put online so you didn't actually need to attend them and a lot of students didn't. There were no debates, no question and answer sessions and very little group work. A friend of mine had a daughter who attended Uni studying law and her contact time was a measly 4 hours...just what my son is being offered this year instead of his 11 hours. Everything for the law student was expected to be done under their own steam. Personally I think that is terrible value for money but I use the point that the difference between last year and this is very much to do with the socialisation and partying. Quite frankly, the partying is something that needed to be addressed anyway...during Fresher's Week, ambulances are a too regular an occurrence at Universities and the amount of drinking games are hugely dangerous. I have been horrified.
I am not saying that there are no problems for students, I just don't think it is helpful to dramatise it all in such a way. It is up to parents to support their offspring where they can to help their young adults find solutions and to signpost them to the available support where they can't. At the end of the day, if you want to undertake University courses this year, you have to be prepared for the problems caused by this virus. You didn't need a crystal ball to see this was going to be a difficult year or that the virus would spike again.
Incidentally, I am not just going by my son's experience but on his many friends at different Universities, some who are just starting and some who are in later years.

Paddyanne I totally agree with you. These students are supposed to be young ADULTS. It's time they started behaving like adults and taking responsibility for themselves and their actions, and the consequences. To see them on TV complaining about the restrictions and isolation and lack of social life makes me mad. "Grow up, you're in the adult world now!! If you can't hack it you should have stayed at home with your mummy."

Now I'll take cover behind the sofa.

Grandma70s

A course that consists mostly of reading and discussion can’t be done at home unless the student happens to live near a big academic library, and I suspect most don’t.

One of the ways that courses are being adapted to online delivery is that universities are extending their licences so that more books and articles are available online, so students can access them from home. That is actually better for them, as there is no chance of the book they want being lent out to someone else.

Educationally, students need not be suffering. If staff have been given time to prepare for teaching online there is no reason why the experience should be massively different. Lectures can happen as usual online, and discussions and so on can take place over Zoom or similar.

I agree that the social aspects of being a student are being disrupted, and that living arrangements are far from ideal, but this is true for everyone, and it is early days. Things might get easier, and anyway would probably be much the same for most students if they were at home with their families.

I wonder if this will force a rethink of what students should expect from universities? Since fees rose so much many seem to expect them to provide ‘an experience’ way beyond the education they are paying for. There were several young people on the news over the summer asking for cheaper courses based on the fact that freshers week and so on would be impacted. This is provided by the SU, not the University itself . There are complaints made against staff when students don’t get the high grades they feel they have paid for, and then complaints from older people about grade inflation. It could all do with a rethink.

I sympathise with this generation of students. Their A levels were disrupted, and the time of their lives when they should be having fun is being curtailed - it’s rotten luck. But this is not the fault of the universities - everyone is suffering under this pandemic.

Like I said before, Open University. They're brilliant.

Toadinthehole

People don’t need to go to uni straight from school. They can go anytime. No one should have gone. It should all be on line. If it had been my children....we would have told them to defer. Go next year or the year after, no rush. It’s not like school, where things have to be done at certain ages, and the pupils aren’t a risk in society like students are. We’ve got them all round us in our university town. It’ll all kick off here soon?.

That's a very good point Toadinthehole. Students of that age won't forget all they have learned over the past 14 years, whereas younger school children can't easily remember from one term to the next, especially after the 6 months break they've had!

A course that consists mostly of reading and discussion can’t be done at home unless the student happens to live near a big academic library, and I suspect most don’t.

There are lots of young people stuck in tiny accommodation, in high rise flats, without gardens, some of them with children of their own. Many of them will not have a University welfare system to support them, they have to get on with it.
There are clearly students out there who are having a bad time, and to any relatives of those people on here, please don't think that I'm saying that there are no problems at all.

But while not minimising the situation many students are finding themselves in, they are not unique and I'm finding this constant stream of breast beating on their behalf a bit much.

Life's not great for any of us just now. Saying that their education is ruined is a bit premature. Its a few weeks in their entire lives!

Really Icanhandthemback- well im glad for your son hes managed to make most of it- but can you also see he might not have caught covid19 at all if he weren't stuck in there mingling with all the others in first place- and that he was lucky to survive it. Theres also a lack of support from these young adults families but main thing they're complaining for is the lack of support from tutors who are ducking out of actually teaching some of them anything! And telling them to watch a youtube video is not teaching/tutoring.

I agree that, fiscally, the students have been short changed Nannan2 and that needs to ve addressed either by the university or government. But I was referring to the impact of socialising which has affected everyone.

Chewbacca

^They are not some homogenous group of irresponsible party-goers.^

That's the problem with making sweeping generalisations though isn't it? Students are no more "irresponsible" than any other age demographic. Nor are they "suffering" any more than any other age demographic.

Oh! I think they are suffering more than somebody who lives in their own home probably with a garden and who can still go out to buy essentials or has a support network to do it. In any case, it doesn't mean that what some students are experiencing is any less real or that they are to blame. They are teenagers, for goodness' sake, and still finding their way. Mental health issues at university, especially in the first year, are generally overlooked anyway.

Really chewbacca? So are you still forking out more than 9k each year plus more for accommodations you can't use, FOR NOTHING?! I doubt it.? yes these students are suffering more- in that respect.And because England are not getting it all free while some countries in a 'UNITED KINGDOM' are doing so then they are being short-changed! If we are United- then make them all free for further education or make them all pay- not just young people in England! Especially this year! The gov't could have stepped in and helped by deferring all their charges- overseas students were allowed 'half price' weren't they? Why not England students too?

icanhandthemback

A lot of students are living in group situations and so will have the opportunity to party within their group. Last year my son's first year was spent with 13 people in their flat and quite a lot of their fun was spent together. This year he is in a flat with 6 people and they are still having the "University Experience". Getting that experience is also about learning to cater for yourself, do your washing. shopping, etc. They are still getting that.
We are constantly hearing about a "lack of support". Exactly what support is needed? They just got on with it last year with little support (apart from each other) and this year will teach them resilience which strikes me is what a lot of young people need to learn these days. Surely they have parents on the end of the phone and friends from school days?
My son is just recovering from Covid and spent 14 days cooped up in his rabbit hutch of a room. He socialised with his flatmates (who made sure he didn't starve) over social media and applied for all the internships he could for next year. It wasn't the best time of his life but a necessary evil. He will have all but 4 hours of his academic education online. It isn't exactly what he signed up for but it is much better than being unemployed with no prospects. His amount of debt (which is horrifying) is no more than he expected and not being out and about will making his loan go further. He can look at the positives or moan about the negatives. One option will make him feel better about things, the other will make things seem worse and him to be a victim.

How do they buy food or get their laundry done, etc if they are all locked down? That's the kind of support they need and parents can't do that on Zoom.

Meanwhile ...

"France: third of new clusters in schools and universities
In France, where a doctors’ leader has warned that the latest wave of the pandemic could “overwhelm” the country amid exhaustion on the part of health workers, Le Monde reports that a third of the new clusters are in schools and universities."

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/sep/27/coronavirus-live-updates-global-death-toll-nears-1m-australian-state-of-victoria-set-to-ease-restrictions?page=with:block-5f704cac8f088d8c714ea4b0#block-5f704cac8f088d8c714ea4b0

The latest figures from health officials indicate that 32% of the 899 clusters under investigation concern schools and universities.

I cannot believe that so many people have just kept their heads in the sand over schools and universities. There's been so much rhetoric and virtue signalling and too little attention to detail or acceptance of reality.

Some of the students in Dundee are managing to keep their spirits up....

A lot of students are living in group situations and so will have the opportunity to party within their group. Last year my son's first year was spent with 13 people in their flat and quite a lot of their fun was spent together. This year he is in a flat with 6 people and they are still having the "University Experience". Getting that experience is also about learning to cater for yourself, do your washing. shopping, etc. They are still getting that.
We are constantly hearing about a "lack of support". Exactly what support is needed? They just got on with it last year with little support (apart from each other) and this year will teach them resilience which strikes me is what a lot of young people need to learn these days. Surely they have parents on the end of the phone and friends from school days?
My son is just recovering from Covid and spent 14 days cooped up in his rabbit hutch of a room. He socialised with his flatmates (who made sure he didn't starve) over social media and applied for all the internships he could for next year. It wasn't the best time of his life but a necessary evil. He will have all but 4 hours of his academic education online. It isn't exactly what he signed up for but it is much better than being unemployed with no prospects. His amount of debt (which is horrifying) is no more than he expected and not being out and about will making his loan go further. He can look at the positives or moan about the negatives. One option will make him feel better about things, the other will make things seem worse and him to be a victim.

But theyre NOT getting online tutorials by the actual real tutors either!- a tutor online for 2 minutes who then gives them a link to watch a youtuber do what the tutor could do themselves in the zoom or discord link is NOT worth paying for. AT ALL..maybe if it was all FREE as it is for some then it might be forgiven- but they are making these young people pay for university and Gov't inadequacies and that is so wrong.Also the students 'agreements' for rentals should be between university and student- not some landlord!(my sons lucky enough to be able to still live at home.) But a few of his friends have been in that position, where they still had to pay for rooms& house-shares, regardless of wether they were there or not now! And many have also lost the jobs they had to help finance themselves.

They are not some homogenous group of irresponsible party-goers.

That's the problem with making sweeping generalisations though isn't it? Students are no more "irresponsible" than any other age demographic. Nor are they "suffering" any more than any other age demographic.