Going to university in 2020

My husband's friend, in his late 50s, is a fellow and lecturer/researcher at a university currently not in a lockdown area. He was told yesterday by the uni that under no circumstances should he come into the university campus because the students are not following the advice given.

My granddaughter only reached her university on Thursday for her course starting on Monday and was in lockdown a day later. Luckily the students are allowed into the grounds for fresh air and exercise. Some students are not so lucky and have to stay indoors. Her course could be learnt online.

Chewbacca

Just like older people, who've been finding every loophole going and ignoring the rules.

I've not seen any evidence of 100s of older people crowding into clubs and bars, hugging each other and generally ignoring any social distancing. Did I miss that?“

Yes. You obviously gave Blackpool a miss. Shocking behaviour from people mostly late 30s and upwards.
Surprise, surprise, extra restrictions now in place.

As a retired associate professor I cannot agree with you that the humanities, divinity and any other subject that does not involve lab. work could just as well be taught online as through lectures and tutorials.

Part of any level of education is the interaction, face to face, of students and teachers and of students with students.

It may well be necessary to make do with online tutition at the moment, but other measures to invoid infection could be brought into play.

Testing all students for the virus before allowing them to go up to University and demanding strict quarantine for a fortnight ought to be possible.

Lecture halls are seldom full to the doors, so students can be told to sit two metres apart and wear masks.

I realise these measures will strain any univerisity or college's adminstrative staff and resources, but that is just the way it has to be right now.

Part of any level of education is the interaction, face to face, of students and teachers and of students with students.
Yes, grandtanteJE65, I agree, online learning is a poor substitute. With very young children it is extremely challenging and for many in KS1 they are actually repeating the previous year's work because online learning was so haphazard. Like you say, I cannot imagine my course (MLangs) being taught without face to face interaction. All levels are affected.

My 18 year-old granddaughter started at university 10 days ago and decided to come back home after spending 4 nights in the halls . She said she didn't feel happy there as she was with 5 other students she did not know and did not feel they had anything in common with her.
Although we were upset at first after reading what is going on we feel relieved. She is still planning to do the course she chose - most of it is online with one practical lesson a week (unless that changes) so she is planning to drive there for that lesson which is fortunately only 40 miles away.
I feel so sorry for all the young people, what should have been a great opportunity has turned into a disaster

If the teaching is 'extraordinary' then why is most of what my sons been offered as online teaching (which hes still paying over £9000 for) been just a tutor for a few minutes telling them to watch youtube videos of something?!!- its so ridiculous hes wanting to drop out, at least for a year.Im upset for him, but i can see hes right, as he said he could just "teach himself by watching bloody you tube videos, and save the debt" its madness getting them all back to uni while the covid19 is rising anyway- but at least they could give them a better education online than a youtuber to watch! Some of their 'online tutors' arent even fully qualified- they're just youngsters who 'passed a course last year'! Not a real fully qualified tutor- also they put students at risk just to go in to uni for only one visit a week- (my sons in a vulnerable category so has said no- but he's only 'allowed' to do that for 2weeks) then must either go in, & work online rest of week or drop out altogether! Some choice..My other son, whose at college hasnt even got the choice to 'drop out' or defer- he returned beginning of sept only to be very ill 2 wks later(not covid19) but even so it made him very ill despite him 'following guidelines' & if other bugs can be passed on& caught then so can coronavirus! Same with schools- kids and young people are being used as cannon fodder!! ?

growstuff

Nonnie

growstuff

So it's fair for them to pay £9250 plus the same again for rent for an experience they're not getting?

I don't think it's the students' responsibility to make up for the shortfall in landlords' income.

Is it fair on the landlord to subsidise a tenant who broke their agreement?

The universities have broken the agreement. They shouldn't have made promises they're not keeping. Maybe they should be responsible for compensation.

But the contract is between the landlord and the student not the university and the student

I disagree with the accusation that older people are finding loopholes because it is not the case where I live. I do my shopping in the daytime and see almost 100% compliance but DS goes to the same shops after work or on the weekends and is appalled at the lack of compliance. I think that speaks for itself.

But the reason the students want to leave is because the universities have broken their promises to the students.

I don't see why the students should become the cash cows when they are the ones who have lost the most and will be paying for the next 30 years.

Thats the thing- the town where my sons uni is- IS in lockdown- even the hospitality is all closed down and only food is take-out- but STILL they expect the students to be there for one blinking one-to- one session a week! Putting them (& their families) at risk! Its madness!?

Nonnie

I disagree with the accusation that older people are finding loopholes because it is not the case where I live. I do my shopping in the daytime and see almost 100% compliance but DS goes to the same shops after work or on the weekends and is appalled at the lack of compliance. I think that speaks for itself.

That's one place. It's certainly not the case from the limited evidence I've seen, in Blackpool or from what some GNers themselves have been saying about what they have been doing.

I just wish people would stop trying to scapegoat "others" - that was the point I was making. Some of the comments about students are really horrid. They are not some homogenous group of irresponsible party-goers.

I don't think online lessons necessarily have to be a poor substitute for face to face teaching. It is a question of adapting the pedagogy to get the best from a different medium. My U3A language students are going to learn a lot more effectively from Zoom than they are from face to face lessons with me wearing a mask!
I feel terribly sorry for this year's students. Going to university is such a huge change (I still remember it vividly over fifty years later) and the isolation that some are experiencing is just dreadful.

There are irresponsible people in all age groups, we have had examples of GN members posting or their Covid rule breaks .

People don’t need to go to uni straight from school. They can go anytime. No one should have gone. It should all be on line. If it had been my children....we would have told them to defer. Go next year or the year after, no rush. It’s not like school, where things have to be done at certain ages, and the pupils aren’t a risk in society like students are. We’ve got them all round us in our university town. It’ll all kick off here soon?.

Nannan2

Thats the thing- the town where my sons uni is- IS in lockdown- even the hospitality is all closed down and only food is take-out- but STILL they expect the students to be there for one blinking one-to- one session a week! Putting them (& their families) at risk! Its madness!?

I agree with. My son is in a city in lockdown. He received an email saying he would only be able to defer if has a specific medical exemption, which he doesn't. Fortunately, he's not a great socialiser anyway and hated living in halls. He's also lucky because his grandmother has paid for a self-contained flat. He loves reading and is quite happy to do his own research, but I had hoped that going to uni would improve his interpersonal skills. He has had nowhere near value for money, although he will hopefully get a first at the end of it.

His university at least has made promises which it hasn't delivered. I suspect they wanted students to attend in person because many of them have invested in student accommodation.

GrannyGravy13

There are irresponsible people in all age groups, we have had examples of GN members posting or their Covid rule breaks .

Thank you. I agree.

They are not some homogenous group of irresponsible party-goers.

That's the problem with making sweeping generalisations though isn't it? Students are no more "irresponsible" than any other age demographic. Nor are they "suffering" any more than any other age demographic.

But theyre NOT getting online tutorials by the actual real tutors either!- a tutor online for 2 minutes who then gives them a link to watch a youtuber do what the tutor could do themselves in the zoom or discord link is NOT worth paying for. AT ALL..maybe if it was all FREE as it is for some then it might be forgiven- but they are making these young people pay for university and Gov't inadequacies and that is so wrong.Also the students 'agreements' for rentals should be between university and student- not some landlord!(my sons lucky enough to be able to still live at home.) But a few of his friends have been in that position, where they still had to pay for rooms& house-shares, regardless of wether they were there or not now! And many have also lost the jobs they had to help finance themselves.

A lot of students are living in group situations and so will have the opportunity to party within their group. Last year my son's first year was spent with 13 people in their flat and quite a lot of their fun was spent together. This year he is in a flat with 6 people and they are still having the "University Experience". Getting that experience is also about learning to cater for yourself, do your washing. shopping, etc. They are still getting that.
We are constantly hearing about a "lack of support". Exactly what support is needed? They just got on with it last year with little support (apart from each other) and this year will teach them resilience which strikes me is what a lot of young people need to learn these days. Surely they have parents on the end of the phone and friends from school days?
My son is just recovering from Covid and spent 14 days cooped up in his rabbit hutch of a room. He socialised with his flatmates (who made sure he didn't starve) over social media and applied for all the internships he could for next year. It wasn't the best time of his life but a necessary evil. He will have all but 4 hours of his academic education online. It isn't exactly what he signed up for but it is much better than being unemployed with no prospects. His amount of debt (which is horrifying) is no more than he expected and not being out and about will making his loan go further. He can look at the positives or moan about the negatives. One option will make him feel better about things, the other will make things seem worse and him to be a victim.

Some of the students in Dundee are managing to keep their spirits up....

Meanwhile ...

"France: third of new clusters in schools and universities
In France, where a doctors’ leader has warned that the latest wave of the pandemic could “overwhelm” the country amid exhaustion on the part of health workers, Le Monde reports that a third of the new clusters are in schools and universities."

www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/sep/27/coronavirus-live-updates-global-death-toll-nears-1m-australian-state-of-victoria-set-to-ease-restrictions?page=with:block-5f704cac8f088d8c714ea4b0#block-5f704cac8f088d8c714ea4b0

The latest figures from health officials indicate that 32% of the 899 clusters under investigation concern schools and universities.

I cannot believe that so many people have just kept their heads in the sand over schools and universities. There's been so much rhetoric and virtue signalling and too little attention to detail or acceptance of reality.

icanhandthemback

A lot of students are living in group situations and so will have the opportunity to party within their group. Last year my son's first year was spent with 13 people in their flat and quite a lot of their fun was spent together. This year he is in a flat with 6 people and they are still having the "University Experience". Getting that experience is also about learning to cater for yourself, do your washing. shopping, etc. They are still getting that.
We are constantly hearing about a "lack of support". Exactly what support is needed? They just got on with it last year with little support (apart from each other) and this year will teach them resilience which strikes me is what a lot of young people need to learn these days. Surely they have parents on the end of the phone and friends from school days?
My son is just recovering from Covid and spent 14 days cooped up in his rabbit hutch of a room. He socialised with his flatmates (who made sure he didn't starve) over social media and applied for all the internships he could for next year. It wasn't the best time of his life but a necessary evil. He will have all but 4 hours of his academic education online. It isn't exactly what he signed up for but it is much better than being unemployed with no prospects. His amount of debt (which is horrifying) is no more than he expected and not being out and about will making his loan go further. He can look at the positives or moan about the negatives. One option will make him feel better about things, the other will make things seem worse and him to be a victim.

How do they buy food or get their laundry done, etc if they are all locked down? That's the kind of support they need and parents can't do that on Zoom.

Really chewbacca? So are you still forking out more than 9k each year plus more for accommodations you can't use, FOR NOTHING?! I doubt it.? yes these students are suffering more- in that respect.And because England are not getting it all free while some countries in a 'UNITED KINGDOM' are doing so then they are being short-changed! If we are United- then make them all free for further education or make them all pay- not just young people in England! Especially this year! The gov't could have stepped in and helped by deferring all their charges- overseas students were allowed 'half price' weren't they? Why not England students too?

Chewbacca

^They are not some homogenous group of irresponsible party-goers.^

That's the problem with making sweeping generalisations though isn't it? Students are no more "irresponsible" than any other age demographic. Nor are they "suffering" any more than any other age demographic.

Oh! I think they are suffering more than somebody who lives in their own home probably with a garden and who can still go out to buy essentials or has a support network to do it. In any case, it doesn't mean that what some students are experiencing is any less real or that they are to blame. They are teenagers, for goodness' sake, and still finding their way. Mental health issues at university, especially in the first year, are generally overlooked anyway.