Nicola Sturgeon upholding the rules

Wanting independence is fine, I want it along with millions of others from the EU.If it happens then so be it, although it will be sad as I think England Scotland, Wales, are better together as one island.I think Ireland should be united with NI as they will be better together in the future, but only if more people want it than don’t.
What is disgraceful though, is any anti-English rhetoric on here, and I have heard plenty on GN over the years.

I've thought for ages that Ireland should be reunited, lemongrove. Although I think the majority in Northern Ireland would disagree.

Can I ask how pro-Scottish independence posters view the Shetlands call for their own independence. They clearly don't want to be part of an independent Scotland.

Have there been any discussion about their stand?

Thank you Alegrias, always happy for a history lesson, I'd heard of the Darien Gap that separates central America from South America, a dangerous place by all accounts, but didn't know about Scottish involvement, I'll have to read up on that Alas! spent too long on the Tudors when I was at school, catholic education back then was somewhat reformation obsessed! Anyway never too late to learn something new

Worry not about whether we are better at football or not, couldn't care less me, but the men in my family seem to think it's somehow life changing as to how their team perform and of course how England performs destined to disappoint I'd say always waiting for that 1966 moment again

Oh TerriBull, don't get me started on the Reformation

Illte I’ve read analyses that say reunification is almost inevitable as more and more people in NI have personal knowledge or experience of the ‘Troubles’. What might affect this (either way) is how Brexit works out for NI and the RoI. Interesting times

Goodness me, Paddyanne, your true colours are showing. I doubt any decent person would want to paint their house in them.

Illte I believe that the Shetlands want to have some degree of autonomy because they don't think Holyrood gives them enough freedom to manage their own affairs. They don't want to be part of Scotland at all, independent or not. One model I saw being discussed was that they become a bit like Jersey and other Channel Isles, i.e. a Crown Dependency. If its what the people there want, to has to be given due consideration.

There's a belief that Scotland would suffer because of the lack of oil money generated by Shetland, but the oil is running out and so we'd have to find an alternative anyway.

If anyone knows more than me about this I'm happy to be corrected.

As a Scot living in England I can understand the strong feelings re independence. I can also understand anti-English feelings especially those recently roused by the last independence referendum.

When I voiced my support for a YES vote, I was shocked and surprised by so many who trotted out not just the old clichés eg Scotland couldn’t survive on her own etc. and those who seemed to think that Scotland was an inferior partner in the Union.

There are old wounds, old hostilities and grievances still held against ‘The English’ which it is probably difficult to understand.

Furret the last independence referendum only roused anti-English feelings in those who didn't really understand what was going on and who haven't moved on from the past. I'll put this bit in capitals:

WE DON'T HATE THE ENGLISH!

You can’t say that because there are some in Scotland who do. Yes, you are probably correct inasmuch as some are anchored in past grievances, as I said in my post. And please don’t shout.

You cannot speak for all Scots. Even though the majority don’t actually hate the English per se, there is quite a lot of resentment festering.

If only that were true, about Scots not hating the English. My boys are now in their 40’s and they were seen as being English and bullied for it throughout the 80’s and 90’s. The schools’ responses were to shrug their shoulders as though they deserved it.

My daughters haven’t suffered so much at school, probably because we now live in a more diverse, less parochial area which voted no in 2014, but my youngest in her studies as a medical student in Scotland constantly had to defend herself as to where she is from, because she doesn’t have a Scottish accent. Being asked ten times a day where you’re from, followed up by ‘No, but where are you really from?’ is racism.

I too have been in situations where anti-English sentiment has been expressed but then people have turned to me and said the equivalent of ‘But you’re alright.’

Racism has always been a part of our experience of Scotland. It doesn’t do to think it doesn’t exist. Despite that, I love where I live right now and my heart lifts at the sight of home whenever we drive north over the border.

You're quite right Furret, I can't talk for every single Scot. I'm sure that there are some benighted people out there who still believe that all we need to do is get out from under the English yoke and all will be fine.

But really, there's no "festering resentment". We're not all about to come rampaging through the Lake District with our claymores drawn. Most of us who support independence are quite open about not wanting to be part of the Union any more, we don't blame the other members, its just that the Union doesn't work for us any more. Its been nice, but its time to go.

And really, really, I can't say this enough. The Referendum didn't rouse any anti-English sentiment, except among those who were a bit befuddled by the modern world anyway. It made a lot of people realise that we can define ourselves as Scots without having to blame any other nation for our situation.

That breaks my heart SueDonim. My English born, English-accented husband suffered the same in the seventies and eighties. There are, unfortunately, places where the 21st century still has to arrive. I wouldn't try to say it doesn't happen because, obviously it has happened to you.

With my Scots accent I used to get called "Jock" a lot when I worked in the Midlands. But I didn't think they all hated me.

I too have been in situations where anti-English sentiment has been expressed but then people have turned to me and said the equivalent of ‘But you’re alright.’
The same has been said to me in Wales. But apparently I was ok, she liked me ??????????????
That was until England beat Wales at rugby that weekend.
My children were bullied at school or ignored when we first moved here but they stood up for themselves and integrated well.

People often say it without thought.

Assuming you’re a woman, Alegrias, that was weird to call you Jock! I wouldn’t like it either but I don’t think there’s an equivalence between a Scot in England and vice versa. As a child in England, to me Scotland & the Scots always seemed well-regarded, with their thinkers, their writers, their engineers and architects, a people to be admired. I had a book with a picture of the Forth Bridge in it which I looked at time & again, fascinated at the endless repainting it needed back then and wanting to see it for myself. It seemed a glorious thing.

It was a shock to come to Scotland and, once my boys began school, find that some people resented us enough to make our lives miserable when we ourselves had done nothing to them.

I should also add, my daughter is now working in N. England and curiously, every single Scot she has come across, and there are quite a few, has immediately identified her as coming from Scotland as soon as she speaks.

But really, there's no "festering resentment

You clearly don’t know some of the people I do then. And before you simply dismiss this as an example of ‘befuddled’ thinking you might want to consider, yet again, you do not speak for everyone and your attempt to dismiss these feeling, or your refusal to accept them, may in fact show that you do not have your finger on the pulse as much as you seem to think.

Actually SD that was what I was wondering. That might explain a lot.

Oh, my boys didn’t lie down under it, Callistemon! In fact, my oldest still has the same tight circle of friends he had when he started senior school over 30 years ago, some of whom are ardent SNP supporters, even though he’s lived in the US for nearly twenty years.

Sadly, not all Scots are as open-minded as his friends.

SD may I apologise for my fellow Scots who made you and your family unwelcome. Like any culture it is often the less educated, less well off or parochial who can take out their resentment on incomers.

As an English-born person living in Glasgow I can say in all honesty that I have not experienced a shred of hostility towards me as an English person, and I feel welcomed as an honorary Glaswegian and as a Scot because I have chosen to live here. It's not English people that are resented, it's the English establishment that treats Scotland as an afterthought. It's not until you've lived here for a wee while that you start realising all the little differences that make Scotland seem much less like a northern extension of England with some cultural quirks and more like a quite different country. You also realise how little you, as a person raised and educated in England, know about Scotland and Scottish history. I think we did Mary Queen of Scots in school history, and Bannockburn, but apart from that nothing about Scotland before 1707. Agincourt? Scotland was on the French side but you wouldn't know it. Macbeth? A wonderful play but historically a load of bollocks and a libel against one of the more benevolent Kings of Scots. There all the little unthinking slights too: the BBC weatherman coming on the radio yesterday saying how wild and stormy it was (in London maybe, in Glasgow it was a lovely crisp autumn day). And the mass-produced Thank You NHS stickers with the -English- NHS logo on it. NHS Scotland is separate and slightly older than the English NHS. And Boris on the news every night talking about Covid, over which he has no jurisdiction in Scotland.

Scots have no axe to grind with English people any more than they have with, say, Swedish people (the Lord Provost of Glasgow until quite recently was a Swede). They just feel neglected and taken for granted by the English establishment.

Scots have no axe to grub

Assuming you’re a woman, Alegrias, that was weird to call you Jock!

Yes, I'm a woman SD ? I think they thought it was funny.

Maybe I was the first Scot they'd met. It wasn't yesterday. ?

Axe to -grind- - it's been that kind of a day

SueDonim: I'm sorry your boys have had a bad experience in Scottish schools. I don't think that's a Scottish-English thing, I think it's a more general childish response to outsiders.

If its any consolation I was put through hell at the age of 11, just by moving from the Wirral to Hertfordshire.

I never though you Scots hated ordinary English people, just that you resented the Westminster establishment. I would hate for Scotland to break away from the union to become independent, but I can totally understand why you might want to.
I will quote David Bowie and say "Scotland don't leave us!"

I appreciate the apologies, thank you, but don’t worry, there’s no need to apologise for something you personally haven’t done!

LadyHonoria I’ll have to disagree with the idea that it’s just a child’s view of outsiders. Children take their cues from their parents and one only has to think of the ‘Anyone but the English’ attitude in sport to see the thinking of many.