Tories plan benefit cuts for pensioners

So I'm confused..........this was said in 2015, by or maybe not Liam Fox, who isnt a minister anymore, so it's totally irrelevant?
Yes, Namsnanny

I did point that out earlier in the thread Thu 08-Oct-20 22:19:09 but not many posters seem to have read my post!

He didn't say it in the first place either, although he agreed with the ideas and intimated it could be a good day to bury bad news.
The man who made the comments 5 years ago, Alex Wild, did have the grace to apologise
"They were crass, offensive and made 'off the cuff' - I made a mistake and I want to say sorry for that.
But obviously that is how he thought.

Fox is in the news because he didn't get a plum job he wanted.

EllanVannin

Do couples get £200 winter payment each ?

No
They get separate payments of £100 each.
It's for the same home.

Okay. Thanks Callistemon, I've often wondered.
To make it more fair, why not just £100 per every pensioner household ?

EllanVannin

Okay. Thanks Callistemon, I've often wondered.
To make it more fair, why not just £100 per every pensioner household ?

Because unless both partners are always in the house together, and only go out as a couple, it will cost more to heat a house with two people than one.

Also, if the couple have paid tax as individuals, why should they get the allowance as a household?

Majority of pensioners with spouses can manage with just £100----can't they ? Did anyone miss £50 when it used to be £250 ? I doubt it.

I don't think we will ever agree on that, as I don't think it should be about how people 'can manage'.

After a lifetime of paying tax/NI it should be about giving people a decent standard of living. If you pay in, you should get back, and if that means increasing taxes, so be it.

Did anyone miss £50 when it used to be £250 ? I doubt it.

EllanVannin, have you really never met anyone living in poverty? I’m surprised that anyone would think £50 is just pocket change to everybody.

The WFA is £200 for a single pensioner household as well as for a two person household. £300 for people over 80.

The WFA is £200 for a single pensioner household as well as for a two person household. £300 for people over 80.

I'm left wondering if I didn't explain it properly

£200 per household which is £200 for a single person.
£100 each for a 2 person household = £200.
£300 for people over 80 per household
Therefore a couple, one 80+ and one under 80 would get £250 - is that correct?

To make it more fair, why not just £100 per every pensioner household?

They must have calculated average fuel costs during the coldest months to arrive at that £200 allowing for younger people to be more active than over 80s.

I think I’m starting to confuse myself, Callistemon, so I’ll just post a link.

www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/what-youll-get

One thing I do think is odd is that a pensioner living with somebody under pension age gets £200.

But if that pensioner has paid into the system all her/his life, why should the fact that their spouse is younger make a difference to their allowance?

It's not 1950, when women expected their husbands to support them, so needed to claim on their pensions in older age.

These days women can work and contribute in their own right, and if they do so, IMO, it is grossly unfair to use their husband's income as a basis for their allowances (and ditto men's allowances being dependent on women's income). This is another reason why I dislike means testing so much. People are taxed as individuals but benefits are worked out on the basis of household income.

But if that pensioner has paid into the system all her/his life, why should the fact that their spouse is younger make a difference to their allowance?

Hang on, Doodlebug. It has made a difference, hasn’t it?

A pensioner living with another pensioner - they get £100 each. A pensioner living with someone of working age - the one pensioner gets £200.

So the fact that their spouse is younger has in effect doubled his or her entitlement.

I’m not sure why you think I need a lecture on equality. I’m simply pointing out what I see as an anomaly.

I’m not disagreeing with what happens - I’m disagreeing with your thinking it odd, is all. Disagreeing isn’t lecturing. I thought this was a discussion.

I suppose it's because it is £200 per household where a pensioner is living, irrespective of who else lives there and their income.

Yes, which I think is reasonable if they have paid into the system. I didn’t mean to come across as snippy - it just seems fair to me, and would be unfair if it didn’t work like that.

So you think it’s okay that a pensioner who happens to have a younger spouse gets £200 and a pensioner with a spouse the same age gets £100?

My DH is older than me, so we’ve benefitted from this for years. 10 years in fact. And I’m not of state pension age yet. It’s actually a good example of a wife being given allowances based on her husband’s circumstances, rather than on her own contributions. Which you say is grossly unfair.

I may have misunderstood the table you linked to (I’m tired!) but I read it like Callistemon - that the person on a pension gets paid the allowance regardless of the age/earning power of their spouse.

It’s actually a good example of a wife being given allowances based on her husband’s circumstances, rather than on her own contributions. Which you say is grossly unfair.

I see it as per household.
You benefited but it was not your allowance, it was your DH's,
to help keep the house warm for him.
When you receive it the house won't need to be kept twice as warm.

It's not based on contributions like a pension because it's an additional benefit

They do. That’s what I think is unnecessary. A household with people in it of working age is not to my mind a pensioner household. I would see it as fairer if my DH had had £100 over the years.

But he'd only be half as warm while you were out working.
He's treated as a single person.

Some people do give it to charity.

Ah well, looks like I’m outvoted. I suppose there have to be some benefits to marrying an older man.

Maggie it just shows how daft the allowance is as it stands. I’m older than my DH but when I first got the money, we were both still working and I was certainly not at home all day needing the heating on. That’s why it should be mean tested - I’d increase it as well

It is assumed that two people cohabiting use the same living room. Do the pensioners spend all their time in different rooms, or sit together imost of the time in the same one (the one with the TV in it)? If they are in the same room, it has one heater. Does it need more heaters because two people are sitting in it? Does it need fewer ?

How much much does it cost to find out? More than giving a blanket allowance, and people would complain about that as well.

Ngaio1

What is the triple lock?

The triple lock guarantees pensioners a state pension uplift every April of whichever is the highest of inflation, average earnings growth or 2.5 per cent. ... With earnings and inflation both down, the uplift is likely to be 2.5 per cent.

My late mother in law lived with her sister, and they each received £200, because they were apparently viewed as having separate households.