Tories plan benefit cuts for pensioners

I hate means testing, as I have said on many threads. I think it keeps the poor ‘in their place’ as any attempt to save for the future is penalised. I believe in a fair tax system so that anyone who pays in can be guaranteed a decent pension without the fear of having it taken off them when they reach pension age.

I think that the way in which people feel free to decide what others ‘need’ or ‘can afford’ is reminiscent of the ‘deserving poor’ attitude of old, and has no place in a modern society. If someone has contributed all their lives they should not be expected to live on ‘what they need’, but should be able to spend their money as they choose.

I feel that a pension should be a reward for years of working, and should not be viewed as a benefit, unless it is being paid to those who have not made enough contributions, in which case other factors should be taken into account (eg disability, illness or caring for a partner).

Finally, I believe that there should be a proper legal contract, so that everyone who contributes knows what they will get on retirement, so that they can plan accordingly, with no changes allowed over the age of 45 or so (or maybe after 25 years of contributions). Again, that would allow people to plan for the future with a degree of certainty. People could then decide if they could afford not to work at all, to work and retire early, or take a contribution holiday to stay at home with children - maybe splitting pension rights between spouses during those years - and basically have the freedom to choose how to prepare for older age.

Pensions in the U.K. are measly compared with everywhere else in Europe and the government are always boasting about being world beating everything do we really want the worst pensions? Agree fairer tax system is the answer so those who have most pay more - that would include pensioners who pay the higher rate of tax as well.

kittylester

I have said, on here, for years that free prescriptions, tv licences, bus passes and WFP are ridiculous across the board and should only be available to people on pension credit or other types of benefit..

People with sufficient money should buy a prescription subscription, pay a nominal sum for their bus passes etc.

I think most people agree, kitty. Trouble is, it's more expensive to sort out who actually needs the benefits than just to pay it to everyone. It was/is* the same with Child Benefit.

*out of touch with all that now

Framilode

In the 15 years we lived in Spain we paid UK taxes on our government and state pension and Spanish taxes on our private pension. We paid more tax to the UK than we did to Spain. We did not use the NHS in the UK during that time.

One of the benefits of being in the EU was freedom of movement. I have always thought there has been a slight element of spite against people that took advantage of that.

Apologies for using the quote button but my iPad won't behave when I try to copy small parts of a post to paste it.

The point of paying taxes is to help other people as well as oneself, so one's not using the NHS while in Spain is irrelevant. We all pay taxes to support health, education and other things from which society as a whole benefits.

Excellent post Doodledog - well said.

I don't agree with loosing the WFA as who knows what is round the corner for any of us as we get older. There may be a time we are desperate for that money. What i do agree with is the stopping of free prescriptions for those over 60. I even contacted my local MP about this with no success. Most people of 60 are still working. If they are on benefits or have a chronic illness, such as diabetes, or COPD etc then fine, free meds for them is brilliant. But if you are working full or part time with a decent income why should you not pay for medication.

I have looked this up (I couldn't find it on the BBC new site) - the Mirror reported Fox as suggesting cutting WFA in a meeting of the Tax Payers Alliance in 2015. The comment about many "not being here" was made by TPA research director Alex Wild and it was later reported as being said as a "bad joke"

He (Liam Fox) said " . . that older people would understand the need to cut the deficit and help the future generation." He's been watching that old film, Soylent Green, and believes that, like Edward G Robinson, old people just have to 'take one for the team'

www.amazon.com/Soylent-Green-Charlton-Heston/dp/B001QUM4IY?tag=gransnetforum-21
A review three years ago - "When I first saw this movie 'way back in the 70's, I never forgot it. The shock value was, of course, something to remember! Now so many years later, I decided to watch it again to see if my memory served and that "Climate change" and mismanagement of our beautiful planet was the same world presented in this old movie. It was and because it is not fiction, it is even more scary now."

Doodledog I wholeheartedly agree with your post of 02.03 am ??

Like Iam64 I appreciate that I am in a very fortunate position to have a comfortable work pension & state pension, as is my DH. This is due to chunky contributions from our salaries over 40 odd years or more.
We are happy to pay taxes to contribute to support for those fellow citizens who need it for a variety of reasons. I am less happy that this current government is seeking to " save" money by cutting ' benefits' like the fuel allowance when they could raise more by increasing taxes for the truly wealthy and working harder to prevent tax avoidance & evasion practised by so many companies and individuals.

Means testing is very expensive in administration and spot checking - also open to fraud. Some people (often those in greatest need) just won't claim benefits.

Similar administration costs apply to top ups such as Pension Credit, Winter Fuel allowance and the silly little Christmas Bonus.

All these are somewhat demeaning/insulting to the older generation. What we need, instead, is a decent pension ('living wage') for all!

Good posts Doodledog, PECS and Hetty 58 - and pretty much everyone here.
We need a decent pension system, just like we need decent living wages when we're working.

Regarding free prescriptions etc.

If we support an NHS that is free at point of use, then prescriptions should be free. If you need them to get better or stay healthy, then why pay for them at point of use? For many pharmaceuticals the amount we would have to pay for a prescription would be a drop in the ocean anyway. In Scotland prescriptions are free and when people say they could afford to pay, I point out that they already do, through taxes.

Same with bus passes, which in Scotland are for over sixties. There are plans to bring in free passes for young people too but they have been paused because of the pandemic. Encouraging people to travel on public transport instead of using their own cars, or worse still, not going out at all, is a good thing for society.

Means testing is a throwback to the idea of the deserving poor, as said by Doodledog. With a well thought out tax system those “well-off” people who can afford to pay for these things do so via taxes, even when they are retired.

I also support a Universal Basic Income for everyone.

Some good stuff on here

We dont need to means test. We can use the different benefits as a criteria. The tv licence was going to be free for those on pension credit (it might still be - lost track!!) That seems a good starting point.

That might encourage people to apply for PC too. As happened when the tv licence plan was muted.

If we had a decent state pension commensurate with the increased costs of living etc. there'd be no need for these " extras ".
State pension is abysmal and even in times of a strong economy it hasn't altered very much at all. We've never been in line with Europe either.

kittylester

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

And yet, courtesy of Mrs Thatcher, they are allowed to vote.

I thought the "extras " were to make up for the fact that the State pension in this country is way below the rest of Europe.
I was interested to see that another poster pointed out that many pensioners live alone and have much the same expenses as homes where there are two or more.

I am ashamed to say Liam Fox is my MP. He is awful.

I thought the "extras " were to make up for the fact that the State pension in this country is way below the rest of Europe.
Yes, westendgirl .

And, as I posted above, these generous handouts are not subject to rises and can be taken away.

Means testing is a very expensive way of giving people benefits. The state pension is one of the worst in Europe, and those on higher incomes pay tax on it. The freedom pass I get means that when I go to art exhibitions and theatre in London I put money into the economy buying coffee or meals out.

So I'm confused..........this was said in 2015, by or maybe not Liam Fox, who isnt a minister anymore, so it's totally irrelevant?

Why has it been resurrected?

(Sorry a bit dim today)

(Doing to many things at the same time, and all of them not very well)

Namsnanny

So I'm confused..........this was said in 2015, by or maybe not Liam Fox, who isnt a minister anymore, so it's totally irrelevant?

Why has it been resurrected?

(Sorry a bit dim today)

It was click bait! I clicked on something yesterday that implied William and Kate were on the brink of divorce. It was actually about a silly squabble before they got engaged.

Paddyanne fell hook line and sinker for the bait and clicked on old news without checking out the facts.

Do couples get £200 winter payment each ?