Tories plan benefit cuts for pensioners

Most of us on here have worked throughout our adult life and paid our taxes. Those taxes have paid for the education and health care of the generations after us and for the pensions and healthcare of those before us. I don't have children but am quite happy that some of my taxes have contributed towards the upkeep of other peoples. My father died when he was 55 and my mother when she was 63. My father didn't draw a pension and my mother had a pension for 3 years. They contributed into the system and received the benefit of education and health care for their children. But they received little pension income. It's swings and roundabouts.

Before any of you lay into me I'm obviously aware that my taxes are also paying for roads, etc etc etc.

We need a fairer system. The problem with means testing is that people don't want to be seen to be poor. Historically thousands of pensioners haven't claimed the benefits to which they are entitled. Furthermore, the cost of means testing apparently outweighed the benefit of operating such a system.

However, with the computer systems available to HMRC it should be easy enough to identify those people who could have some benefits cut - eg removing heating allowance from higher rate tax payers or assuming that everyone over a certain age and living in specified post codes is taxed on the benefit of free travel.

Why do pensioners living in London receive free travel passes whilst people living in rural areas don't have access to public transport?

HMRC have access to a wide range of information about peoples' finances. Did you know that income paid to AirBNB renters is now being declared? Not all of it will be taxable but that's another matter.

The DSS know each and every one of us that receives a state pension. It should not be difficult to link to HMRC to find those who don't have other income. I, through my agent's account with HMRC can obtain details of my client's pensions and/or salaries. I'm unable to get their state pension if they don't have other income taxed under PAYE but the day will come when I can.

My only caveat is the appalling way in which recent computer programmes have been devised and the vast amounts paid to those friends of people in high places who are running the track and trace and other such systems.

yes cornergran this has been debated before and with practically the same comments. I'm on Pension Credit and thus have very little money, so for me even (and probably thousands of others outside of GN) the seemingly 'paltry' £10 Christmas bonus is a great help at a very expensive time of year.

Smileless2012

IMO any benefits given to pensioners should be means tested. Let those who need it receive it.

His reasoning is they'll probably be dead before the next election and if their not they wont remember who made the cuts Did he actually say this Paddyanne?

I agree, it could be linked to income, a lot of pension age people don’t need the extra benefits.
I think paddyanne is putting words in Liam Fox’s mouth.

This has been debated before I think. My view is that it is all too easy to forget the pensioners in the middle. Insufficient income to feel comfortably off but too much to qualify for means tested benefits. There is a real danger that these people would then either qualify for means tested benefits and negate any saving or have to make choices that will seriously impact on quality of life. It has already been necessary for many of that middle group of pensioners to adjust already tight budgets to re-absorb the cost of a television licence, some will say the amount is insignificant, it is certainly not the reality for many. It would in my view be fairer to add the amount of these ‘benefits’ to retirement pension and so make it taxable. Those with a higher overall income would then see less benefit. Removal of free prescriptions could cause extreme hardship to many and I hope this is never under serious consideration.

Don’t we have one of the lowest state pensions in the Western world? And is it fair that people who have worked and paid for a small additional income to supplement that should have it snatched off them by way of reductions to their state pension? Not in my book.

Yes, there are pensioners who are very well off, as there are people in every sector and age group - presumably they pay tax on their income accordingly?

Bringing in means testing (the very expression makes me think of Victorian values), and limiting free prescriptions etc to those on Pension Credit, will lead to those already too proud or too unaware to claim it suffering even more. It’s estimated that that’s up to 40% of those eligible.

said Fox on the report I read

People who have moved abroad aren't contributing to the economy of this country.

People in Spain do not get the heating allowance. When the government was working out which expats would get the allowance in which countries they did this by setting an average winter temperature. Expats in countries below this temperature would get the allowance. When they worked out the temperature in Spain they included the Canaries in their calculations which brought the temperature in Spain up above the threshold.

Spain can be absolutely freezing in Winter. We certainly spent a lot more on heating in Spain than we do here in the UK.

I also agree with another poster who said expats have contributed throughout their lives in the same way as everyone else and should receive the same benefits.

We are financially ok because of decent pensions, savings and were fortunate to inherit half a small house when parents in law died. WE paid tax like everyone else all our working lives and we still do of course. We don't need the bus pass, or the winter fuel allowance. We donate more than the cost of that to our local charity, works closely with people of all ages who are in need.
Ive read that means testing costs more than it would save. I'd be happy to lose the fuel allowance etc but equally, with tax and donations to charity we more than make up what we're given.

Sparklefizz

I resent the heating allowance being given to pensioners who have retired to hot countries.

It isn't. My heating allowance was removed when I moved to France 10 years ago. And it gets bl...dy cold here in the winter.

You should have attributed ...........

Well according to what I have just read, it was Alex Wild Director of the Tax Payer alliance who said this. Fox was at a the same fringe meeting and said the Gov. should take the opportunity where there is a weak opposition, to push through unpopular decisions.

You have attributed that appalling statement to the person who made it ie Alex Wild.

I’ve only just become eligible for my SP.
I’d be happy for the triple lock to be removed as Covid has decimated so many incomes, we should show solidarity and take a hit too. In my opinion.

I agree that there are pensioners who are very comfortable with more disposable income than many younger disabled people or families and these people do not need winter fuel allowance or other extras.
The problem lies with deciding who does need these things. If it is limited to those on Pension Credit, many single pensioners with incomes just above will struggle. I like 52bright's idea of only giving it to single pensioners.

IMO any benefits given to pensioners should be means tested. Let those who need it receive it.

His reasoning is they'll probably be dead before the next election and if their not they wont remember who made the cuts Did he actually say this Paddyanne?

I have said, on here, for years that free prescriptions, tv licences, bus passes and WFP are ridiculous across the board and should only be available to people on pension credit or other types of benefit..

People with sufficient money should buy a prescription subscription, pay a nominal sum for their bus passes etc.

The Christmas bonus is ridiculous as for the heating allowance for people in hot countries, it does get cold in Spain, and very hot in summer . We paid the same as you why shouldn't we benefit ?

Triple lick ?

I honestly cannot see why only pensioners benefit from the triple lick and not disabled people or those on UC. I think all benefits should be increased in the same way whichever way that is. Why not?

We don't get the heating allowance in France Sparklefizz That's hardly a hot country. There is a temperature baseline applied so people retired to hot countries don't get the allowance.. I accept there have to be compromises.

OC =PC

We should increase pension credit and give WFA to those on OC

I resent the heating allowance being given to pensioners who have retired to hot countries.

I can see where people are coming from but not all pensioners are 'comfortably off'. I don't need the fuel allowance or Christmas bonus ...but I am fortunate to still have my dh alive and well with me with both his own state pension and occupational pension. Two pensions ...or in our case four as I have a very small ocupational pension ...supporting one household, is very different to households where people have lost their life partners. Same utilities ext but only one pension. The problem is, that once a benefit is taken away ...and that includes triple lock ...it is never given back and some who need it would suffer. I would keep triple lock but only give the heating allowance and Christmas bonus to some pensioners. Maybe means test or only to single person pensioner households. Of course some single households could also be very wealthy and not need it, but this would at least cut out double income households which don't need it. I would also charge a nominal amount for bus passes ...maybe £10 a year. This would help local authorities with ever decreasing budgets but at less than a £1 per month shouldn't prevent any retired people who need it using public transport.

I agree the bonus is a joke but I live in a part of Scotland where it gets very cold and many people have to decide whether to put on heating and go without food .Thats WITH the fuel allowance so taking it away will cause real hardship.