Boris announcing in House of Commons now

Well said Monica and I would apply your post to our very own King Canute here in Wales - who thinks he’ll be the first Welshman in history to keep the English out of Wales!

THE REAL NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS: A US TRADE DEAL IN THE MIDDLE OF COVID

Did you see the 12 October Dispatches programme on US food standards?

Despite the fact we’re in the middle of a pandemic, the government is pushing forward with a US trade deal. We know what this means: lower food standards allowing hormone-laced beef and chlorinated chicken to flood the market, deregulation of our environmental laws, putting our workers’ rights at risk and permanently opening up the NHS to American healthcare companies.

We can stop it, but we need to make our voices heard.

On October 24, we are joining Global Justice Now, Stop Trump, War on Want, Keep Our NHS Public and others to call a Day of Action against the US Trade Deal.

Up and down the country, people will be standing up for our health, our rights, our planet and our public services.

www.anothereurope.org/the-real-nightmare-before-christmas-a-us-trade-deal-in-the-middle-of-covid/

Spot on M0nica - and yes, we await the criticisms.

Why did they ignore the SAGE advice for a (short, little) 2 week lockdown?

Please don't say it's fears for the economy. That just doesn't make sense.

Don't they know that 'A stitch in time saves nine'?

Or we’ll get the “government are doing their best and we mustn’t criticise” brigade.

Very well said MOnica!

Cue people coming along and telling you that should be behind the government because we need a united front.

There is nothing to be gained by comparing one pandemic with another. I too remember the Hong Kong flu epidemic of the late 1960s, also the Asian flu of in 1958.

But those were flu epidemics and were not as severe nor as lethal as COVID. There were already proven drug therapies to deal with the symptoms and while hospitals were stretched, they were not overwhelmed.

COVID is an entirely different virus, it is more severe and more lethal than many of the flu pandemics and we now live in a very different world where people are always on the move, both within the country and overseas, so diseases can be spread much more quickly than before.

When the lockdown was first implemented, it was to stop the hospitals being driven to breakdown by being overwhelmed by serious and fatal cases. by reducing the numbers getting the disease, it also gave medical researchers time to develop treatments and test drugs that could be used. The second wave is now with us, far fewer are ending up in hospital and still fewer dying because effective therapies have been developed.

Wearing a mask is such a trivial thing and this fuss about them is just a storm in a tea cup. 95% plus of the population have no problems using them, you can just keep one in a pocket or handbag and pull it out when needed. Those that cannot wear them should shield and not go into places where they are required.

That is one thing. However we look to our government to take control in situations like this, and after acceptable early weeks confusion with the sudden onset of a serious disease, we expect that after this they will develop a coherent and consistent strategy that can respond to the vagaries of the disease and provide the country with a clear path that is being followed and with consistent and forecastable responses. We expect them to realise in advance that if you shut all pubs at 10.00pm. A whole lot of people will spill out of them into the streets at that time, making social distancing impossible.

Likewise if you announce on Wednesday that the 10.00 curfew will come in on Friday, then Thursday night will be party night. Foreseeing that is really not rocket science.

The current government, regardless of its political persuasion, are out of their depth and still disorganised They are like little boys with pop guns running around wildly shouting 'bang, bang you are dead!' and running into trees and tripping up in puddles. When the government is in such dissaray they lose the respect of those they are meant to govern and cannot be surprised if more and more people ignore everything they say.

MaizieD

I know someone whose son knows someone who knows Dominic Cummings.

(and I'm an experienced user of portaloos..)

Shall we go into partnership growstuff?

And I'm pretty experienced with horses, so could compensate for your deficit in that field....

I know someone whose son knows someone who knows Dominic Cummings.

(and I'm an experienced user of portaloos..)

Shall we go into partnership growstuff?

Thanks for your post at 19.16, growstuff, saved me a job and it's nice to know that I'm not alone.

People hear the 'government can issue money' bit and don't look further to see the 'it comes back to them via tax' bit.

varian

OK growstuff, but who do you know?

I know somebody who claims to know Matt Hancock and I was once in the same room as he was. Will that do? Unfortunately, I don't like horses.

The people that died didn’t just ‘get on with life’ did they? Or am I missing something here?

12JO

Please can we stop the playground left v. right drivel & concentrate, as some contributors have, on the question of whether the current restrictions are correct.
In a situation which is constantly changing of course the government has to adapt. Saying you don’t understand any government advice is Not a great advert for a person.

These are not unprecedented times other than our Worldwide reaction to yet another virus.
Nobody seems to remember Hong Kong flu over 2 winters in the late 60s , killing 2 million worldwide, yet everyone, everywhere got on with work & life.
And it passed as this will.

Good post, and worth reading again!
All the ‘evil Boris’ and ‘he’s a monster’ and all the other overblown rhetoric on the thread is quite ridiculous.

Much better for posters to stop any right wing/left wing drivel as you say, and talk about what restrictions mean for them, what they would hope to see etc.

OK growstuff, but who do you know?

MaizieD

Here's one service sector that will be massively expanded come 1st Jan 2021!

twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1316316827279142912

Hey! I could provide them! £3 billion? It's a deal. I know sod all about portaloos, but that doesn't seem to make any difference.

Brilliant post LadyHonoriaDedlock.

PS. The UK doesn't need to buy anything from another country, as it did during WW2 from the US, so the post war debt is different.

vegansrock

The government can’t just print money with no debt, otherwise there would be no poor countries, they’d all be printing money off. They have to raise borrowed money eventually. We’ve only just finished paying off debts to the USA for WW2 loans

No, most countries can't because their currency is somehow linked to external factors. For example, Venezuela's currency was linked to the petro-dollar and was heavily influenced (and destroyed) by the US.

Countries in the Eurozone can't print money either, but the UK can because sterling is sovereign.

This is what happens:

The Bank of England "prints" money and gives it to the government, which then spends it on something which is in the common good. If it's an infrastructure project, much of the money will be spent on wages. The money then returns to the Treasury via taxation - direct taxation, such as income tax or indirect, such as VAT. The Treasury can then choose to let that money circulate or, if the economy is becoming overheated and there's a risk of high inflation, the money can be withdrawn and/or taxation could be increased.

The big problem comes when money ends up in the hands of people who don't use it for the common good and don't allow it to return to the Treasury, by squirrelling it offshore. It remains to be seen what happens to the money which has been handed out over the last few months in contracts to cronies. It certainly won't circulate round the economy as money paid to "ordinary" people would.

LHD so pleased to see your excellent overview. It is so uplifting to read. Thank you

LadyHenoriaDeadlock - fantastic post at 18.19 today. Thank you so much for this detailed, articulate and imo, spot on summary of the Boris Johnson.

Whitewave I may not conclude he's a monster, but otherwise, totally with your summary of Johnson.

Plus, thank heavens for the so called "Northern Mayors". Andy Burnham is a local hero. We need the circuit breaker suggested by Keir Starmer today. We also need financial support for our devastated areas and to support the lock down

Janpt

Whitewavemark2

Johnson will certainly go down in the history books as the man who destroyed the union, who destroyed our economy by leaving the EU and unnecessarily destroyed so many lives through covid.

The man is a monster.

What a ridiculous outrageous comment to make. The total lack of empathy for someone who has been so ill himself and is now in the unenviable position of leading the country in the middle of this pandemic only shows that the monster here is you. Perhaps you are arrogant enough to feel that you could do a better job but I very much doubt it.

The Johnson known as 'Al' or 'Alex' to his family and friends (although he has few friends) is pretty monstrous by all accounts including those of such luminaries of the Left as Max Hastings, his old boss at the Telegraph, Michael Howard, his sister Rachel, and a fair few who had to work with him as Mayor of London. He is lazy, he is a pathological liar, he is ruthlessly manipulative, he is chronically under-prepared, he doesn't care who gets hurt in his rush to get what he wants.

The Johnson known as 'Boris' is an act, a stage persona if you prefer. The plummy accent, the floppy hair, the hesitant speaking, the buffoonery; they are carefully cultivated, probably originally as a defence against school bullies and his overbearing father but found useful when bringing down the house at Conservative Party dinners. Johnson loves the limelight and the adoration of an audience. Poor lamb, he wanted to be PM so he could put his act on the world stage in a time of plenty (remember when 2016 wasn't the "right" time?) He planned his rise meticulously (the one time he's ever been on top of his brief, because it was all about himself) so that he could bask in a Brexit honeymoon, dispensing wisecracks and put-downs from the dispatch box, before things got tricky, then go off to America to make a mint on the lecture circuit. He got rid of people in his own party who might be awkward and he packed his cabinet with weaklings who would do his bidding to order (remember when he had them reciting for the TV cameras like a class of infants performing for the Chair of Governors?)

He didn't see Covid coming. He hadn't got a plan for something that needed gravitas not sunny wit, and he doesn't do gravitas. He rode for a while on popular goodwill even as he got sick himself – self-inflicted to some extent as he boasted of going round hospital wards shaking hands with Covid patients) and then as it became more and more apparent that behind the faux-Churchillian rhetoric there was no substance, only personal vanity. His number was up when Cummings went for the long-distance vision test.

Johnson missed a trick in his adoring emulation of Churchill. Churchill was one of a number of Conservative MPs in 1938-40 who knew that the only way to confront the menace of Hitler was for a coalition with Labour, but he was the only one of them who was both willing to overcome his instinctive distaste to work with Labour, and also acceptable to Labour. Contrary to popular myth (he wrote his own myth, he more or less admitted it) Churchill didn't win the war single-handed. Britain survived six years under siege and ultimately (with a lot of help from others) prevailed because Churchill gathered around him a brilliant team of all stripes and colours (if there was a single stroke of genius it was swallowing his pride and inviting Ernest Bevin, whom he destested, into his cabinet). That's the kind of approach that was needed against Covid.

MayBee70

Monster or not the rest of what WWM2 is correct is it not?

Only in your and his typical left wing opinions.

BJ didn't leave the EU WW2 he ensured that the result of the referendum, like it or not, was up help.

As for accusing him of "unnecessarily destroy(ing) so many lives through covid", I agree with Janpt it's a ridiculous and outrageous comment to make.

Monster or not the rest of what WWM2 is correct is it not?

Whitewavemark2

Johnson will certainly go down in the history books as the man who destroyed the union, who destroyed our economy by leaving the EU and unnecessarily destroyed so many lives through covid.

The man is a monster.

What a ridiculous outrageous comment to make. The total lack of empathy for someone who has been so ill himself and is now in the unenviable position of leading the country in the middle of this pandemic only shows that the monster here is you. Perhaps you are arrogant enough to feel that you could do a better job but I very much doubt it.

Oh come on WW2 - Hitler was "a monster" - you can't call Johnson that, however poorly you think he has handled things.