Starmer calling for lockdown (Edited by GNHQ)

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MaizieD

^printing money is the biggest cause of inflation,^

It isn't actually. The government has been 'printing money' (well, issuing it directly from the Bank of England) all year. Has there been any inflation (apart from that in daily test and trace 'consultants' fees)? No, there hasn't.

Inflation is a result of too much money chasing too few goods. We're a long, long way from that.

If the government doesn't do anything to financially support people and businesses in lockdown the economy definitely will collapse because no-one will have any money to spend into it.

Thank you Maisie. Your post saved me a job.

Rosina

I made myself a promise not to watch any of the bulletins about Covid, having become almost apoplectic last week. However, I recently watched the news and heard a person from Liverpool saying that it was all a conspiracy, and when asked what he meant, he said he didn't know, but it was because 'we are Labour'. Last night I heard a person from Manchester saying that they were 'being picked on'. How are we to deal with this kind of stupidity? I really do despair if there are people who think that having a party immediately before lockdown is a good idea - who are they cheating? Only themselves and the people that they might well kill. In the beginning I hoped that the ignorant were in the minority - I still do hope that, and that the efforts of the rest of us will prevail.

I bet you wouldn't think it was stupid if you lived in Liverpool or Manchester. Liverpudlians haven't forgotten Geoffrey Howe's not to Margaret Thatcher suggesting that there should be a "managed decline" in Liverpool.

Yes, I think it's nonsense too, but angry people aren't always rational. Just look how some of them voted in the 2016 referendum!

Try putting yourself in their shoes!

By the way, Dominic Cummings is on record as having said that a dislike of the "south" should be encouraged in the north.

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I made myself a promise not to watch any of the bulletins about Covid, having become almost apoplectic last week. However, I recently watched the news and heard a person from Liverpool saying that it was all a conspiracy, and when asked what he meant, he said he didn't know, but it was because 'we are Labour'. Last night I heard a person from Manchester saying that they were 'being picked on'. How are we to deal with this kind of stupidity? I really do despair if there are people who think that having a party immediately before lockdown is a good idea - who are they cheating? Only themselves and the people that they might well kill. In the beginning I hoped that the ignorant were in the minority - I still do hope that, and that the efforts of the rest of us will prevail.

printing money is the biggest cause of inflation,

It isn't actually. The government has been 'printing money' (well, issuing it directly from the Bank of England) all year. Has there been any inflation (apart from that in daily test and trace 'consultants' fees)? No, there hasn't.

Inflation is a result of too much money chasing too few goods. We're a long, long way from that.

If the government doesn't do anything to financially support people and businesses in lockdown the economy definitely will collapse because no-one will have any money to spend into it.

Burnham isn't setting himself up as a rebel, though no doubt some may take that view. That was the approach taken against politicians and local people who marched to St Peter's square to protest about lack of franchise in "the north". They were massacred. It didn't escape the notice of those of us in Manchester, that Burnham spoke up for us from the steps of Central Library. The area of town where the massacre of Peterloo took place.
The northern Mayors remember the 80's. Thatcher closed the pits and devastated mining areas with no attempt to help the families left there, no work = the dole = heroin addiction, mental health problems, family break down. Then our industries went, again no investment in our infra structure that would have provided employment. Try getting a train from Bolton into Manchester. The trains are full by the time they reach Wigan. We desperately need investment. Burnham is doing his job, he's supporting his region.
To suggest that him demanding financial support will lead students to party - come on let's not get silly.

Growstuff printing money is the biggest cause of inflation, the last thing this country needs now is runaway inflation. This is why I agree strongly in local lockdown first to try to nurse the economy along in order to help health across the board.
We all need to make sacrifices.

That was my thinking Lemongrove but you have expressed it much more clearly. Thanks.

LauraNorder

*Iam64*, I believe that his anarchistic stance, the way he delivered his protest will encourage the covidiots to put up two fingers to the government and go forth and party.
I don’t think that Andy Burnham would personally encourage this but I feel his current attitude will do so.

I feel it will too.
It’s one thing to ask if there can be more money, and another to set yourself up as a rebel, it gives licence to students and anyone else to carry on as they have been doing.Meanwhile more and more are contracting the virus there.

growstuff

I've just written this post on the Coronavirus thread, in response to LauraNorder:

By that logic, local lockdown will destroy Greater Manchester's local economy, but it seems you don't care about the lives of many millions of people.

No, you need to understand economics. The government can just get the Bank of England to "print" the money to support Greater Manchester, as it has done with the £13 billion for the ineffective Trace and Test. People will spend the money, be taxed on it and it will return to the Treasury.

You contradict yourself in your penultimate sentence. We do indeed need to act as a nation to protect each other, which is why Greater Manchester needs to be supported. 9 of the 27 council leaders in Manchester are Conservative and they are all backing Burnham.

And I have answered you Growstuff on the coronavirus thread. I have not contradicted myself. I believe we all have to do our bit, other UK economies need to continue to support those that can’t.

oh yes growstuff I got my tiers mixed up.

LauraNorder

*Iam64*, I believe that his anarchistic stance, the way he delivered his protest will encourage the covidiots to put up two fingers to the government and go forth and party.
I don’t think that Andy Burnham would personally encourage this but I feel his current attitude will do so.

It's not anarchic.

Burnham wants support for the businesses and individuals who will be affected, so the measures will be effective. If they don't get it, the temptation will be to flout the law, in order to pay the bills. Tier 3 on its own won't achieve much.

That's not anarchy.

I've just written this post on the Coronavirus thread, in response to LauraNorder:

By that logic, local lockdown will destroy Greater Manchester's local economy, but it seems you don't care about the lives of many millions of people.

No, you need to understand economics. The government can just get the Bank of England to "print" the money to support Greater Manchester, as it has done with the £13 billion for the ineffective Trace and Test. People will spend the money, be taxed on it and it will return to the Treasury.

You contradict yourself in your penultimate sentence. We do indeed need to act as a nation to protect each other, which is why Greater Manchester needs to be supported. 9 of the 27 council leaders in Manchester are Conservative and they are all backing Burnham.

Do you mean "go to Tier 3"?

I agree that cross party cooperation is needed and this is easy for me to say because I don't live in Manchester, but if the Gov. believes it necessary for them to go to level one, they refuse and their allowed to ignore the Gov. doesn't that then make it possible for others to do the same?

Fair enough LauraNorder, if that's your view.

MaizieD sets out exactly why Starmer and Burnham (and many others) are calling for a circuit breaker, properly funded rather than these endless stop again, with no end in sight. Bolton was put into extra measure by text at 10pm, no discussion with the council. The Council leader, a Conservative stands side to side with Burnham on this. We need cross party cooperation but that can't be achieved with the current tory management.

Iam64, I believe that his anarchistic stance, the way he delivered his protest will encourage the covidiots to put up two fingers to the government and go forth and party.
I don’t think that Andy Burnham would personally encourage this but I feel his current attitude will do so.

Sarnia

I would support a short lockdown to help the R number reduce. Sadly, unless it reduces to 0, which it won't in a few weeks, as soon as the lockdown finishes and people start to circulate again, we will be back at square 1.

Lockdown on its own is, indeed, likely to lead to resurgence once lifted. But that is not what is proposed.

It's lockdown in conjunction with radical changes to the current shambolic centralised 'test, track, trace and isolate' operation. Where local Public Health authorities have been enabled to carry it out their success rate is much higher than the government scheme. But the government refuses to fund them, preferring to stick with the failing scheme where 'consultants' are being paid up to £7,000 a day with pitiful results.

I must confess that I am totally mystified as to what the government is trying to achieve by throwing £billions at a failed operation. They certainly don't appear to have the wellbeing of its citizens at heart.

LauraNorder, why do you believe Andy Burnham would keep Manchester partying all night?
His job is to support his city. That's what he's doing, trying to get the right level of financial help for residents, the hospitality and small businesses.
Disagree with his stance if you like, on a political basis but let's not slur a good man by suggesting he doesn't care about the spread of this awful virus.

Perhaps I'm getting forgetful!
But we did have it at school, 1st or 2nd year of senior school and I thought it was given on a spoon.

1956 was the injected vaccine. 1961 was the oral vaccine. I should know I got both!!!!

I would support a short lockdown to help the R number reduce. Sadly, unless it reduces to 0, which it won't in a few weeks, as soon as the lockdown finishes and people start to circulate again, we will be back at square 1.

Callistemon

I'll have a look at that in a minute but I'm sure I had the vaccine much earlier than that.
Probably 1956 or 57, in fact I'm sure it was about then.

I don't recall having the vaccine, but polio was certainly rife in the 1950s. Children with leg calipers were quite a common sight. I thought vaccination for it was introduced before the 1960s.

Thank you Mr Google. Vaccine introduced in the UK in 1956

uk.news.yahoo.com/on-this-day--polio-vaccine-introduced-to-british-public-in-bid-to-eradicate-20th-century-plague-163554852.html

Babies take it in syrup
That's how we were given it, although we weren't babies.