Scotland. Banning smacking in the home.

As someone has said the royal family would follow the law of the land and if they break the law should be treated as anyone else.
We know how difficult safeguarding law is, I cant speak for fanny but I deal with it every day. We shouldn't avoid something because it's difficult.

Spangler - teachers, police, social workers, health workers etc who deal with safeguarding issues daily are unlikely to be phased by either of the scenarios you present.
They're also very unlikely to over react.. Not saying its perfect but its definitely a decent system.

I am also wondering how this will be enforced Spangler.

How will it be proven? Who will bring the allegation? Could this be 'used' for example by one angry parent to prevent the other parent for having contact with their child? Could this be used by angry child to get back at their parent(s)?

Galaxy - yes, I deal with safeguarding every day too (when I'm actually working).
I work mainly with children who have EHCPs in a secondary school.

Not a day goes by without me logging at least one thing on CPOMS (Child Protection Online Monitoring Service - the system them most schools use, for the uninitiated).

I could tell you did it for a job fanny just didnt want to speak for you

the Diana scenario would still be perfectly legal in england. reasonable chastisement is allowed.
the hitting around the head as described outside is not reasonable and could have been reported.

Sorry but this has been talked about for a long time and I thought that smacking had already been banned in the home in Scotland some time ago.
I wonder how that can be proved if it is inside the home and would the child have to make the allegation to an adult for instance?
It is a sad fact of life and some parents who do not parent well do resort to smacking and verbally abusing their children.
Sadly we have the other side of the spectrum and many young children with A.D.H.D or Autism and other issues are known to hit, punch, bite and attack their parents and those parents remain calm such a lot of childhood issues to consider.

This is deviating from the subject but 3nanny6's post reminded me. I worked with the family of a young man with ASD once. The mother told me candidly that she always had to wear long sleeves to cover up her son' s bite marks on her arms and kept her hair short to avoid him pulling it out in chunks. I think that she'd become so used to the situation that she didn't realise how awful it was. They were a good kind family but by golly their son gave them a diabolical time. Hats off to them and others in similar situations.

I have seen further up the thread about safeguarding issues being discussed. I can appreciate what Fannycornforth says that safeguarding issues are handed to the designated safeguarding officer as I agree that one person should be responsible to deal with it. I would point out that although social workers, health care workers and even police then get involved with the case to them they are then dealing with the family on Social services level. I have lived in some less than suburban areas and even when Social services have been involved with families I have still been aware of the children looking under fed and males entering the household of that particular family. Social Services only visit about once a week if that, sometimes it could be once a fortnight. There still needs a lot more done for these poor children it goes a much longer way than smacking.
The thing is as nation we do not want to see this on our doorsteps we let ourselves be under the illusion that people are grabbing these children before they fall through the net but the reality is they are not.

This thread bothers me deeply, and I'm not sure how to respond but feel I should. Looking at the subject from a totally different way.
I come from a background of severe negligence and abuse from my parents. Punishment was meted out in different ways. Sometimes it would be the spontaneous clip round the ear hole, soon forgotten, but my mothers favoured punishment was tying my hands together and hitting me on the back of my knees with a whippy cane, until weals rose on them. It probably stung a lot. I don't remember the pain.

However, when I'd really upset her she had greater punishments lined up - two I remember to this day. Either I'd get locked in the coal shed for a couple of hours (after always being told there were rats in there) or being locked in my bedroom for hours with no food or drink, not being let out, and when I weed myself, I'd get another punishment for that. The effects of this psychologically has stayed with me all my life.

I'm not looking for pity, what I want to say is it bothers me that, from my experience, taking away the short sharp shock treatment meted out throughout the animal kingdom throughout time may leave some parents to turn to the far more long term damaging of the premeditated punishment 'just you wait til tonight' sort of thing.

I'm not for one second suggesting that any parent should systematically hit a child but I fear if the punishment instinct is made illegal then parents may resort to other, premeditated means of punishment, which instead of lasting until self dignity is restored, will haunt for a lifetime.

That is indeed food for thought, boheminan.

I was a fortunate child who was never smacked, although I got told off, until I got a swift clip round the ear as an older teenager and I still think I deserved it - it certainly made me think.

Why on earth should a child have to tolerate something that an adult finds intolerable and which is illegal?

If you think domestic abuse is wrong why would you think hitting a defenceless child is ok?

There was a plan for a "named person"who would be in the backgroundfor every child in Scotland.Failies who had no issues would probably have never heard from them but children likeboheminan would be picked up at an early stage and have someone to fight their corner .There IS need for something along those lines but some folk ...not all thought it was going toon far ...though how you can go too far in child protection escapes me .
I think it was the same folk who trashed the offensive behaviour at football law ....they thought they should be allowed to sinf sectarian songs and cause fights ....Sadly the Labour party in Scotland was behind both initiatives being dropped .

There’s a lot of difference with disciplining a child, as Diana did with William, and smacking one. I would be interested how they will monitor it, as horrific child abuse goes on unnoticed without anything being done until it’s too late as we all know. Anyone being hit at home would be too frightened to let anyone know.

Smacking shouldn’t be sanctioned by the state, which currently in England, it is.
There are now 100,000 children in the care of the state. Care proceedings escalated during lockdown. This is no surprise to anyone working with children and families. Drugs, alcohol, domestic abuse, escalating as well. So called vulnerable children were given the same status as key worker children and should have been in school during lockdown but of course, they weren’t
No wonder our children score so highly on the sadness scale compared with other countries.

I think I'll be the one dissenting voice on here. I am most definitely not advocating beating children, or otherwise causing them harm, but, given the prevalence of 'diagnoses' today, for what used to be called 'being naughty,' I am convinced that at least some of these labels (not all - I know that autism is a real condition), could be eliminated and a child's behaviour corrected by a good smacking.
I am tired of reading comments such as, 'you wouldn't do this an adult so why would you do it to a child?'
Or 'all violence is unacceptable.'
I do not consider smacking a naughty child to be 'violent.' And of course you don't treat an adult the same as you would treat a child.
I think back to my own schooldays, when classes were held in relative calm (no corporal punishment, just very strict teachers) and I contrast them with the behaviour I've seen on the 'Educating Essex, Educating Manchester'etc and I can't help noticing the drastic decline in behaviour.

You may not consider smacking a child as violence Antonia but I for one do! Luckily, so do most civilised people.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, 'Jane10 but I'm sticking with mine. So, you believe that everyone in the past who smacked a child was 'uncivilised?'

a good smacking.

That is an oxymoron.

Well Antonia - you have been very naughty in expressing a view contrary to the majority opinion. Consequently I will be round to your first thing in the morning to give you a 'good smacking'. Now this will be for your own good and you will learn right from wrong as you recall the anger,.confusion and humiliation you felt as I beat you. Seriously?! What planet are you on?! The issue of the attitude and behaviour of some of our adults in training has a different root cause. Young people growing up are maturing very quickly and they have had access to much better educational and life experiences than we ever had. They are very well versed in knowing their rights and maybe a good proportion also recognise their responsibilities. None of this has to do with the fact they were not physically chastised as children ( and yes, one adult will say smacking never harmed them, while another recognised the damage to their image and self esteem). So I am very afraid you are mistaken. Many of the issues of adult violence to each other must start to be addressed when children are little. Good behaviour and coping strategies for recognising and dealing with our emotions must be modelled to our children. It simply has to happen and legislation is necessary.

Antonia a good smacking will sort out absolutely nothing.

Many of our prison population have undiagnosed numerological, emotional or behavioural difficulties. They probably fitted easily into your category of "naughty boys" . Antonia. The level of dyslexia in the prison population is extremely high. Many of the men in prison were 'naughty boys' because they were neglected, subjected to "a good smacking" on a regular basis. Their school attendance was poor because their parents didn't prioritise the needs of their children. So developmental or neurological difficulties were missed and the boys simply seen as another naughty boy from family X. Many of the men in prison ended up in the care system. Sadly, not early enough in their lives to make a positive difference.
My father proudly told me his house was the only one on the street that didn't have a belt behind the door for administering punishment to bad lads. I was never smacked either, my parents who were born in the early 1920's knew better ways of helping us grow into responsible citizens.

Iam64

This is excellent news. Let's hope it is soon the law in England.

NfkDumpling - the parent you describe would need outside help and advice long before it reached the point a teenager was attacking them. I can't imagine police called to that kind of incident charging a mother with assault. They're usually very aware of the impact of domestic abuse and linked to children's services, who would be called in .

Not necessarily Iam. Not necessarily. I'm afraid I know of exceptions.

And I am concerned that other methods may be used instead. As a child my father never hit me, but he had other methods. I spent a lot of time in solitary.

But again we would have no safeguarding laws then, dont put laws in place to stop adults neglecting children for example because they may find other more horrific methods.

Nfk, I didn't suggest the system is fault free, I'm also aware of exceptions.
Cruelty towards children won't be eradicated if we continue to allow smacking. Smacking is simply wrong. Emotional abuse of children is wicked, particularly as its so deliberate. Many children get the double whammy of physical and emotional abuse.

I would rather more effort was put into helping parents raise children. There's so much advice on baby rearing but then, it just stops. Help for the average parent peters out as the child approaches school age and the parent is on their own. Sure Start has been brilliant but after that there only seems to be Social Services and they have a poor reputation. A child advise and support service an idea perhaps?