Scotland. Banning smacking in the home.

I'm wondering how this will be enforced too boheminan and what measures will be in place to deal with false accusations.

I welcome it being made illegal - and about time too. Of course, it won't stop the worst offenders, behind doors - who have no regard for the law anyway.

Sure Start centres worked very closely with Children and Family Services. Many Sure Start centres had been l.a. family centres or nurseries that were improved when he NewPin or Sure Start model began to be developed across the country.
The Blair government was instrumental in this. Every Child Matters was a significant document that aimed and achieved improving the lives of children and their parents.

Then along came Cameron who announced he'd be closing Sure Start Centres because they weren't reaching the deprived / need families because what he referred to as middle class families like his own were dominating. That may have been the case in leafy areas like the one he lived in, it definitely wasn't the case in the poor, deprived areas I worked in.

My spaniel cuffed her puppies but then they were placed with humans. I wouldn't have placed them with families who continued the methods their mum had used. They were brought up with positive training methods, no cuffing or smacking needed. Positive reinforcement works better with dogs than physical punishment which is more likely to undermine the bond between human and dog, as well as lead to a less confident, responsive animal. Not much different than caring for children in those early, developmental years.

My rabbit eats his own faeces bohemian, if it's ok with you I wont use the animal kingdom as a model for behaviour. Quite a lot of animals eat their own young, again not sure whether this should be implemented by our species.

This is great news. Anyone who smacks children.... has been beaten by a mind smaller than their own.... I know a 7 year old who is more articulate and intelligent than both her parents.

I don't see how this banning can be enforced. Please can someone enlighten me.

Cuffing, punishing is a natural instinct in the animal world, any mother animal will cuff offspring if they're misbehaving. There's good reason for this, it's not the adult bullying, but protecting their young, it's a lesson in life to be learnt. This instinct includes homo sapiens. A mother, when reunited with a child who may have, through their own misadventure, put themselves at great risk to be rescued at the last minute, more often than not will instinctively smack/cuff the child, not from malice, but from sheer relief they're still alive - it's a natural instinct, the cuddling will follow. So, this is now being seen as punishable cruelty to the child?

To OP, no, children are not chattels, but we as parents are there to help and guide them through life. That’s the ideal. Where I live, quite nice area, the amount of indulged children I see is mind boggling. Ferried 60 yards to school, they could walk, parents constantly glued to their phones, once there, they gather in little groups, in the latest sportswear, talking to friends but eyes never far from that screen. You go in supermarkets and a child is running round, usually shouting, mother or father on the phone, maybe just indifferent, I’ve seen the children helping them selves to the odd thing, if they are caught, a shrug and we’ll pay at checkout. There is no guidance or discipline, no engagement with that child, no sense of responsibility to other people. Children learn by example, from what I see from a lot of parents is neither, children almost like an accessory to their lifestyle. Smacking a child is pointless. Giving them a tap like Diana, keeping them in line, to children that are very much lived and cared for won’t hurt them. The other type of parent won’t mind too much either way. There should be more emphasis in all schools on parenting, it’s as if it doesn’t matter. I learnt from good parents, what do you do when you haven’t had that?

I thought Sure Start petered out when children start school.

Sure Start has been brilliant but after that there only seems to be Social Services and they have a poor reputation. A child advise and support service an idea perhaps?

Wasn't that part of what Sure Start was intended for, ''a child advice and support service'?

It's a lovely dream but sadly it all boils down to political choices. Our current government will do nothing; nurturing the nations' citizens isn't anywhere on its political horizon..

I would rather more effort was put into helping parents raise children. There's so much advice on baby rearing but then, it just stops. Help for the average parent peters out as the child approaches school age and the parent is on their own. Sure Start has been brilliant but after that there only seems to be Social Services and they have a poor reputation. A child advise and support service an idea perhaps?

Nfk, I didn't suggest the system is fault free, I'm also aware of exceptions.
Cruelty towards children won't be eradicated if we continue to allow smacking. Smacking is simply wrong. Emotional abuse of children is wicked, particularly as its so deliberate. Many children get the double whammy of physical and emotional abuse.

But again we would have no safeguarding laws then, dont put laws in place to stop adults neglecting children for example because they may find other more horrific methods.

Iam64

This is excellent news. Let's hope it is soon the law in England.

NfkDumpling - the parent you describe would need outside help and advice long before it reached the point a teenager was attacking them. I can't imagine police called to that kind of incident charging a mother with assault. They're usually very aware of the impact of domestic abuse and linked to children's services, who would be called in .

Not necessarily Iam. Not necessarily. I'm afraid I know of exceptions.

And I am concerned that other methods may be used instead. As a child my father never hit me, but he had other methods. I spent a lot of time in solitary.

Antonia a good smacking will sort out absolutely nothing.

Many of our prison population have undiagnosed numerological, emotional or behavioural difficulties. They probably fitted easily into your category of "naughty boys" . Antonia. The level of dyslexia in the prison population is extremely high. Many of the men in prison were 'naughty boys' because they were neglected, subjected to "a good smacking" on a regular basis. Their school attendance was poor because their parents didn't prioritise the needs of their children. So developmental or neurological difficulties were missed and the boys simply seen as another naughty boy from family X. Many of the men in prison ended up in the care system. Sadly, not early enough in their lives to make a positive difference.
My father proudly told me his house was the only one on the street that didn't have a belt behind the door for administering punishment to bad lads. I was never smacked either, my parents who were born in the early 1920's knew better ways of helping us grow into responsible citizens.

Well Antonia - you have been very naughty in expressing a view contrary to the majority opinion. Consequently I will be round to your first thing in the morning to give you a 'good smacking'. Now this will be for your own good and you will learn right from wrong as you recall the anger,.confusion and humiliation you felt as I beat you. Seriously?! What planet are you on?! The issue of the attitude and behaviour of some of our adults in training has a different root cause. Young people growing up are maturing very quickly and they have had access to much better educational and life experiences than we ever had. They are very well versed in knowing their rights and maybe a good proportion also recognise their responsibilities. None of this has to do with the fact they were not physically chastised as children ( and yes, one adult will say smacking never harmed them, while another recognised the damage to their image and self esteem). So I am very afraid you are mistaken. Many of the issues of adult violence to each other must start to be addressed when children are little. Good behaviour and coping strategies for recognising and dealing with our emotions must be modelled to our children. It simply has to happen and legislation is necessary.

a good smacking.

That is an oxymoron.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, 'Jane10 but I'm sticking with mine. So, you believe that everyone in the past who smacked a child was 'uncivilised?'

You may not consider smacking a child as violence Antonia but I for one do! Luckily, so do most civilised people.

I think I'll be the one dissenting voice on here. I am most definitely not advocating beating children, or otherwise causing them harm, but, given the prevalence of 'diagnoses' today, for what used to be called 'being naughty,' I am convinced that at least some of these labels (not all - I know that autism is a real condition), could be eliminated and a child's behaviour corrected by a good smacking.
I am tired of reading comments such as, 'you wouldn't do this an adult so why would you do it to a child?'
Or 'all violence is unacceptable.'
I do not consider smacking a naughty child to be 'violent.' And of course you don't treat an adult the same as you would treat a child.
I think back to my own schooldays, when classes were held in relative calm (no corporal punishment, just very strict teachers) and I contrast them with the behaviour I've seen on the 'Educating Essex, Educating Manchester'etc and I can't help noticing the drastic decline in behaviour.

Smacking shouldn’t be sanctioned by the state, which currently in England, it is.
There are now 100,000 children in the care of the state. Care proceedings escalated during lockdown. This is no surprise to anyone working with children and families. Drugs, alcohol, domestic abuse, escalating as well. So called vulnerable children were given the same status as key worker children and should have been in school during lockdown but of course, they weren’t
No wonder our children score so highly on the sadness scale compared with other countries.

There’s a lot of difference with disciplining a child, as Diana did with William, and smacking one. I would be interested how they will monitor it, as horrific child abuse goes on unnoticed without anything being done until it’s too late as we all know. Anyone being hit at home would be too frightened to let anyone know.

If you think domestic abuse is wrong why would you think hitting a defenceless child is ok?

There was a plan for a "named person"who would be in the backgroundfor every child in Scotland.Failies who had no issues would probably have never heard from them but children likeboheminan would be picked up at an early stage and have someone to fight their corner .There IS need for something along those lines but some folk ...not all thought it was going toon far ...though how you can go too far in child protection escapes me .
I think it was the same folk who trashed the offensive behaviour at football law ....they thought they should be allowed to sinf sectarian songs and cause fights ....Sadly the Labour party in Scotland was behind both initiatives being dropped .

Why on earth should a child have to tolerate something that an adult finds intolerable and which is illegal?

That is indeed food for thought, boheminan.

I was a fortunate child who was never smacked, although I got told off, until I got a swift clip round the ear as an older teenager and I still think I deserved it - it certainly made me think.

This thread bothers me deeply, and I'm not sure how to respond but feel I should. Looking at the subject from a totally different way.
I come from a background of severe negligence and abuse from my parents. Punishment was meted out in different ways. Sometimes it would be the spontaneous clip round the ear hole, soon forgotten, but my mothers favoured punishment was tying my hands together and hitting me on the back of my knees with a whippy cane, until weals rose on them. It probably stung a lot. I don't remember the pain.

However, when I'd really upset her she had greater punishments lined up - two I remember to this day. Either I'd get locked in the coal shed for a couple of hours (after always being told there were rats in there) or being locked in my bedroom for hours with no food or drink, not being let out, and when I weed myself, I'd get another punishment for that. The effects of this psychologically has stayed with me all my life.

I'm not looking for pity, what I want to say is it bothers me that, from my experience, taking away the short sharp shock treatment meted out throughout the animal kingdom throughout time may leave some parents to turn to the far more long term damaging of the premeditated punishment 'just you wait til tonight' sort of thing.

I'm not for one second suggesting that any parent should systematically hit a child but I fear if the punishment instinct is made illegal then parents may resort to other, premeditated means of punishment, which instead of lasting until self dignity is restored, will haunt for a lifetime.