Scotland. Banning smacking in the home.

I have seen further up the thread about safeguarding issues being discussed. I can appreciate what Fannycornforth says that safeguarding issues are handed to the designated safeguarding officer as I agree that one person should be responsible to deal with it. I would point out that although social workers, health care workers and even police then get involved with the case to them they are then dealing with the family on Social services level. I have lived in some less than suburban areas and even when Social services have been involved with families I have still been aware of the children looking under fed and males entering the household of that particular family. Social Services only visit about once a week if that, sometimes it could be once a fortnight. There still needs a lot more done for these poor children it goes a much longer way than smacking.
The thing is as nation we do not want to see this on our doorsteps we let ourselves be under the illusion that people are grabbing these children before they fall through the net but the reality is they are not.

This is deviating from the subject but 3nanny6's post reminded me. I worked with the family of a young man with ASD once. The mother told me candidly that she always had to wear long sleeves to cover up her son' s bite marks on her arms and kept her hair short to avoid him pulling it out in chunks. I think that she'd become so used to the situation that she didn't realise how awful it was. They were a good kind family but by golly their son gave them a diabolical time. Hats off to them and others in similar situations.

Sorry but this has been talked about for a long time and I thought that smacking had already been banned in the home in Scotland some time ago.
I wonder how that can be proved if it is inside the home and would the child have to make the allegation to an adult for instance?
It is a sad fact of life and some parents who do not parent well do resort to smacking and verbally abusing their children.
Sadly we have the other side of the spectrum and many young children with A.D.H.D or Autism and other issues are known to hit, punch, bite and attack their parents and those parents remain calm such a lot of childhood issues to consider.

the Diana scenario would still be perfectly legal in england. reasonable chastisement is allowed.
the hitting around the head as described outside is not reasonable and could have been reported.

I could tell you did it for a job fanny just didnt want to speak for you

Galaxy - yes, I deal with safeguarding every day too (when I'm actually working).
I work mainly with children who have EHCPs in a secondary school.

Not a day goes by without me logging at least one thing on CPOMS (Child Protection Online Monitoring Service - the system them most schools use, for the uninitiated).

I am also wondering how this will be enforced Spangler.

How will it be proven? Who will bring the allegation? Could this be 'used' for example by one angry parent to prevent the other parent for having contact with their child? Could this be used by angry child to get back at their parent(s)?

Spangler - teachers, police, social workers, health workers etc who deal with safeguarding issues daily are unlikely to be phased by either of the scenarios you present.
They're also very unlikely to over react.. Not saying its perfect but its definitely a decent system.

As someone has said the royal family would follow the law of the land and if they break the law should be treated as anyone else.
We know how difficult safeguarding law is, I cant speak for fanny but I deal with it every day. We shouldn't avoid something because it's difficult.

Galaxy

Also by that logic we would have no safeguarding laws whatsoever.

Ladies, apologies if I sound antagonistic, I'm playing Devil's advocate to show you how difficult the enforcement of the law will be. Fanny, thank you for enlightening me on teacher responsibility, you are right, I wasn't aware.

This might seem like a verbal hand grenade, but think about it. If Diana's smack on William's bottom happened today, should it go without any warning? If it should, what would you say, or do, if your saw your child repeating what Diana did to William, on your grandchild?

moggie Im sure that it is illegal to hit a child outdoors.
It makes you think, if they do this in full view, what do they do behind closed doors?

ban smacking outside too. the other week i saw a mum hit her child round the head hard .i leant out the window and said dont do that ,you can give her brain damage . was told to eff off .she said ITS my child i can do what i want .me says its child abuse . more swearing ,so i took a photo of her and the child ,who head was turned away sobbing . and said if i saw her do it again i would report her.. ok it was a stranger and not anyone i know but upset me to think she can do this. poor child was only running on the grass by my flat.. ..

Also by that logic we would have no safeguarding laws whatsoever.

Oh, and you are certainly not allowed to 'coax'.
You are not even allowed to question.
You write down exactly what the child says and pass it on to the DSL immediately.

Spangler (I'm not picking on you, honestly!)
Re your scenarios.
Please be assured that Safeguarding in Schools is much, much more complex than you appear to think.

First off, if a child discloses parental abuse to a teacher, it is absolutely not the place of that teacher to tell the police. If you did do that you would probably lose your job.

You do, however, have a legal responsibility to report it to the school's Designated Safeguarding Lead, and noone else.

There is then an extremely sound and thorough procedure which is then followed to the letter.
Safeguarding is a massive thing in all schools, and rightly so.

In the perfect world there would be no need for such a law. Has anyone stopped and thought how it will be enforced? My guess is that it will be meant as a deterrent.

Take, for example, the petulant young teenager, who isn't really aware of the seriousness of reporting a parent. That child tells his teacher that his father beats him. The teacher reports it to the police. The father is removed from the home. The whole thing is a tissue of lies on the child's part. The father could lose his job, the family could break up. Who do you believe?

Now take the child who really is being beaten, again a teacher notices the difference in the child's attitude. Carefully it's coaxed out of her that she is being beaten at home. Same scenario as before, parents are taken into custody, only this time the parents are clever. So skilled are they that they convince the authorities that the child is nothing more than a cunning manipulator. They are released. What fate awaits that poor child back at home.
This legislation will prove to be a minefield.

Spangler, that is the press for you! The media manipulate most situations to sell papers in my opinion

Tiggie Legge- Bourke was William and Harry's nanny. Diana was jealous of her sons' love for Tiggie.

Spangler - Diana's blood line was far more aristocratic than that of the Windsors'.
I'm not sure who regarded her as a 'commoner'.

What then? Well the same as when any law changes. Princess Margaret wouldn’t be able to smoke in a public place, All members of the RF would have to wear seatbelts and so on.

There is no reason not to make something illegal because someone influential has once done it.

Good parenting? Diana must have been the first to actually attempt parenting, perhaps that why she was known as a commoner.
The press did go overboard on that correction. I'm certainly no Royalist, nor would I try to justify smacking. William first of all got the index finger wagging, he was having none of it, so when Diana had enough, William got the palm of her hand on his bottom.
Look at the footage and you will see that it was more of a push but read any story in the press and you would be forgiven to think she had birched him.
Her determination to raise her own children and the pressure she was under to put them in the care of nannies must have had some bearing. She lost it, but had that happened after the law was changed, what then?

Spangler

Smacking has never been a problem of mine, not that I agree with it. I wonder what today's society, and more to the point, today's press, would make of Diana's admonishment of Prince William?

Are you upholding the royals as models of good parenting??????

Smacking has never been a problem of mine, not that I agree with it. I wonder what today's society, and more to the point, today's press, would make of Diana's admonishment of Prince William?

I too thought it was already law I think it is almost but with different wording something about undue force which could mean different things to different people so yes a blanket ban on ANY kind of hitting of children is what is needed Well done Scotland leading the way as usual good for Wales following BUT why 2022 why not now and come on England get your act together
As for the ‘never did me any harm’ brigand they get right up my little nose

This is excellent news. Let's hope it is soon the law in England.

NfkDumpling - the parent you describe would need outside help and advice long before it reached the point a teenager was attacking them. I can't imagine police called to that kind of incident charging a mother with assault. They're usually very aware of the impact of domestic abuse and linked to children's services, who would be called in .