How confident are you in a good deal for the UK?

Almost all vets working in U.K. abattoirs are from the EU, and the workers in them, If they all go home I shall be pleased. But then there will be no one to certify the animals are healthy or to protect them from some of the cruelty that goes on in U.K. abattoirs Not jobs that Brits want to do, but maybe they should. No doubt the government would use their new “freedoms” to by pass legislation that tries to protect animals having their throats cut in horrible conditions having been transported all over the country as abattoirs have got fewer, and larger. If leavers really care about animal welfare they should have a look in their own back yard,

Dinahmo good point, but it was a close thing in 1940.
Only by a miracle did Hitler change his plans and went against Russia instead. Which led to his downfall.

Alegrias

I get the leavers idea that we can do better outside the EU, despite their inability to explain how, what I don’t get is their (leavers) expectation that they can cherry pick the good parts and leave the bad.

We didn’t like the rules so we left, but we still want the benefits, sorry guys that’s not how it works, if there were no rules there would be no club. The vast majority of the EU members benefit, the others accept it is in the greater good to stay together.

The Government has made a appalling mess of the negotiations, the world has been watching, the lies and lack of faith has been noted. We have been behaving like common crooks, despite the diplomatic language that exactly how the rest of the world see us.

I think sometimes people forget that the last time England was invaded was by the Normans. England has been fortunate in not being invaded subsequently but the European countries have been, over several centuries, sometimes by English forces.

When talking about our great victory in getting the vaccines first, Johnson even referred to Blucher and the Prussians joining forces with Wellington to fight the French armies.

As others have mentioned above, France and Germany in particular want peace to continue and long may it do so.

Dinahmo

Lucretzia

This quote from Gorbachev is an interesting one

*The most puzzling development in modern politics is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.'*

He would say that wouldn't he?

Of course he would - who’d know better?

Did seek, didn't find Lucretzia, except second hand from people who thought it matched their preconceptions. Found one site who said they had removed it as its sources were not attributed.

You don't think...could it have been made up? Surely not...

Seek and you shall find, ladies

It's hardly a quote that gets trotted out at regular intervals

seamstress

Its funny they are trumpeting "proposed" animal welfare laws changes ( note they are not actually yet in law but just suggestions, my guess is parliamentary time will be so full they wont get passed) - maybe prompted by Carrie- to try to spin some positive Brexit outcomes - unlike the mostly negative stuff, of course the fact that many farms in the UK don't currently follow the EU regulations on animal welfare anyway - we are 500 vets in abattoirs short - is ignored. There are PETA videos on cruelty in UK abattoirs that would sicken you - yet NO ONE is prosecuted.

Before the referendum I read that many of the vets working in UK abattoirs were Spanish and I suppose many of them will have returned home.

Lucretzia

This quote from Gorbachev is an interesting one

*The most puzzling development in modern politics is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.'*

He would say that wouldn't he?

Cross post MaizieD

Got a source for that quote from Gorbachev? Not just a picture off the internet, or an article from a Russia Today journalist, or a bit of a rant from a conspiracy website, but an actual, referenced quote?

I'll wait......

I was going to comment on the Gorbachev 'quote' but the cultists got in first.

There's no penetrating the armour of the lies they've been fed, so why bother trying...

Jabberwok good post, spot on ?

I remember that quote from Gorbachev. Obviously no comment on here which is not surprising, but for me it was thought provoking. Paddyanne, your views about Westminster absolutely mirror my views about the Commission in Brussels. Equal partners?!! you don't truly believe that? Maybe when it suits! after that , as is now the case with Eire, it's you've served your purpose so at best you are now sidelined, or at worst it's two fingers, and do as you are told or else you will be punished. remember Greece? nothing very equal about their treatment by so called partners. Ask the Dutch, again a referendum ignored, nothing they could do except put up with EU bullying, Eire? referendum, HAD (you bet they did) to go twice to get the ,'right' result! Sad but true. Only two countries run the EU, Germany and France, the rest are just trimmings, like window dressing to be trotted out to support the big two to give the illusion of democracy, but make no mistake any deviation by anyone will certainly be punished.

Ireland’s foreign minister, Simon Coveney, said: “Having heard from Michel Barnier this morning, really the news is very downbeat. I would say he is very gloomy, and obviously very cautious about the ability to make progress today.”

Quite true that nobody really knows what will happen.

I was pleased to see Dr. June Raine from the MHRA saying that medicines/vaccines/equipment will not be affected by a No Deal.

Deal or no deal, I expect the flow of immigrants will continue if there are jobs British people don't want to do - they'll just be non-EU immigrants.

If there is a deal, both sides will claim it is a good deal just to save face. When we see the details we'll be able to work out if we agree regardless of the hype.

Not 500 vets in abattoirs - there is a shortage of 500 vets overall - many of our vets are from the EU and most of those in abattoirs are from the EU as are those that work in abattoirs.

Its funny they are trumpeting "proposed" animal welfare laws changes ( note they are not actually yet in law but just suggestions, my guess is parliamentary time will be so full they wont get passed) - maybe prompted by Carrie- to try to spin some positive Brexit outcomes - unlike the mostly negative stuff, of course the fact that many farms in the UK don't currently follow the EU regulations on animal welfare anyway - we are 500 vets in abattoirs short - is ignored. There are PETA videos on cruelty in UK abattoirs that would sicken you - yet NO ONE is prosecuted.

Interesting thread. I don't know how anyone can accurately predict what the consequences of no-deal would be. Except that many food items sold here are almost sure to be more expensive, as we lose the favourable import/export duties from the EU.
I believe many voted leave to cut down the flow of immigrants from the EU. I wonder if that will happen?

This quote from Gorbachev is an interesting one

The most puzzling development in modern politics is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.'

Excellent post David 0205, couldn't agree more. And Maybee70 too.

In the words of Spanish MEP Esteban Gonzàles Pons:
Europe is not a market; it is the desire to live together. To leave Europe isn’t leaving a market, it’s leaving the dreams that we share.
Europe is the peace that came after the disaster of war. Europe is the pardon between French and Germans.
Europe is the return of freedom to Greece, Spain and Portugal, Europe is the fall of the Berlin wall. Europe is the end of communism.
Europe is the only spring that our continent has known in all its history,

But you know, blue passports...

paddyanne correct me if I’m wrong but are you Scottish by birth or just by marriage (hence living there).

Sorry about the extra ‘e’ in the whisky! I never remember which is Irish & which is Scottish.

We dont make Whiskey thats Irish,I'm sure you know that ,dont you have Scottish relatives who would point it out to you that WHISKY puts £ 60 a second into UK coffers .Maybe they're vichy Scots though who think WM deserves all our income to play with!!Theres a few on this forum.
Before you feel you need to say it..yes I do HATE Westminster and I cant for the life of me see why anyone who claims to be a Scot is happy to be ruled by a foreign government .80% PLUS..controlled by folk who know nothing about us and care even less .Proven by Brexit!

It’s funny isn’t it that the population of the EU is about to shrink by 65 million on January 1st which is somewhat more than the whole of the Balkan region, yet only the U.K. leave voters complain. Yes, it costs money to improve your neighbours standard of living, when it happens they will buy your products and services, that is one reason that Northern European countries help.
The other reason is having experienced centuries of conflict culminating in two World Wars and occupation buy invaders, working in the common interest is preferable to warfare. My parents told me of all the horrors of the devastation in Britain during WW2. It wasnt until I had an exchange visit as a teenager to Holland that I heard the horrors of occupation and invading armies first hand, fighting in both directions