How confident are you in a good deal for the UK?

Well, whatever we’ve always had it never felt like nor translated as ‘independent’.

'Feelz' is a ludicrous basis on which to run a country and an economy.

petra

Let it go to no deal. Then Macron won't have any fishing rights. His fishermen are really going to love him then, aren't they?

I rather think that the French fishers will take matters into their own hands in that case.

And our fishers won't be able to sell their catches , that the British mostly don't eat, to their usual EU markets.

But hey, sovereignty...

Priti's wave machine will blow them all to the French without any effort ;)

Let it go to no deal. Then Macron won't have any fishing rights. His fishermen are really going to love him then, aren't they?

Thank you biba for that. I watched it.

Totally agree - we will be talking about fish in perpetuity but that’s okay.

The industry needs regulation, sustainability and probably annual negotiation.
I have no problem with that.

Just why then is Macron demanding a 10 year deal? He’s pushing his luck and he knows it.

Yes, I will. Here is why perspective is essential. Will you watch? It is very very important at this stage- re fishing

fb.watch/2bAkGv-wCR/

Bet you haven’t biba! You’ll be commenting on it sometime this December I’m sure.
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yeah, yeah sure

Maizie- suddenly I have become almost dispassionate and detached- it feels very weird. Just can't take it anymore- lost the will.

Well, whatever we’ve always had it never felt like nor translated as ‘independent’. We got carried along with the bloc and could only use our veto. Too bound up by ECJ.

We will be better off and more nimble sorting things for ourselves without having everything ratified on the level playing field by the EU.

Oh, God!

That bloody 'sovereignty' that we've had all along.
Those bloody 'rules' that we've been instrumental in making...

I wish this was mumsnet, then I could call this lunacy for what it is...

Brilliant lemongrove thank you!
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... and of course we are losing our place in the world hierarchy. Who will listen to us now? We are becoming a second-rate nation with a 1950s outlook to complement our grey and drizzly skies.

Not confident at all in any shape or form. It was obvious from the start that Gove, Rees Mogg etc., were going for a no-deal. When I think of how we’re having to make deals with Australia and Canada for example, I am nearly speechless. Just think of those air-miles, when Europe is just an hour away. Utter madness. I am so cross about the whole thing.

I think fishing is totemic too.

Focus on the thing that makes the headlines and appeals to people's belief in a non-existent past, and ignore the things that we really need to be successful in the future.

Funny you should say that Urmstongran as I was just putting on my headphones and sitting down preparing to tune in to Number Ten.....
(Some crackling and mumbling) then.....
Boris: Damnation! Why are these KitKat wrappers so hard to open? ( munching noises)
Ursula V: Boris? Vat you are saying?
Boris: Oh, haha, nothing really, just trying to keep up my energy levels
Ursula V: Look, ve need to put somethink together that make you look gut and EU look gut, and ve all come out on top!
Boris: I’m with you on that, but my hands are tied by the UK fishermen you see..
Ursula V: Vat?! Das ist shockink! Haf you called the police?
Boris: What we really need is for someone to sit really hard on Macron, what do you say to that eh?
Ursula V: Ja! I also haf heard the things that go on at zose Presidential French parties, he enjoys the hard sitting ons?
Boris: Well, I don’t know about enjoyment, but I’m willing to come over and do it, if it helps our deal, I could be in Paris by
7pm!
Ursula V: So kind! I shall await your phone call, shall we say about 10 zis evening?
Boris: Righto, talk later. (Silence, then.... ‘Carrie.....call the car, am off to gay Paree!’footsteps then a door slamming somewhere.)

I think the fishing issue is totemic.
It demonstrates our sovereignty which is what Brexit is all about. No more rule taking from the EU. We get to decide who fishes in our waters.

All this romantic nonsense about fishermen really irritates me, especially when you read the truth up thread about the selling off of fishing rights. More people have potentially lost their jobs last week through the collapse of Debenhams and Arcadia than are employed in fishing. I think we need to get a sense of perspective here. As to a deal, I suspect a very last minute one which will leave us far worse off than when we started on this madness, and we will have achieved NOTHING, spent more than we have on EU membership over the past 40 years, and greatly diminished GB standing in the world, which is ironic as that is what so many Brexit supporters inside and outside of Parliament keep bleating on about.

Well Boris & Ursula vdL will be chatting about now ....

This is where we could do with lemongrove to make us laugh! She has hidden microphones in No. 10 apparently.
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and fishing rights were sold voluntarily for big bucks to foreigners- but of course that is Macron's fault !

Our fishing communities were treated very badly by the UK's representative on the EU Fisheries Committe , one Nigel Farage, who was so idle and had so little regard for the UK fishing industry that he only bothered to turn up for one meeting out of a possible 42.

I don't know any more, there has been so much shouting from both sides, one side all amazing and the other all doom and gloom.

I'm just waiting to see at this point.

The idea of food and medication being a problem concerns me the most.

I also have concerns about energy suppliers being based overseas.

Those issues could see the poorest among us unable to afford those basic nessessities.

If anyone can alleviate those concerns I would be grateful.

Canada is not irrelevant to me David I think you are missing the point. The company I am referring to does business with Canada (as well as many other places), and we need to know now what rules will apply in just 4 weeks time about how it does business. For instance, how personal tax will be apportioned, whether IP agreements still hold. All this is currently clear due to the agreements we hold with Canada due to being part of the EU.

We don't know if we will be working to WTO rules or what else. We can't set up for the worst case, which is WTO rules, because if that isn't the governing set of rules from 1st January, all our contracts will be void.

Tariffs are the least of it, but unfortunately most Brexit supporters have no idea of the chaos that will come about as a result of this disastrous path we are on. But then we are not fishermen, so it probably doesn't matter.

“he just does not trust the UK's intentions- can we really be surprised?”

The EU hasn’t trusted our intentions for 3 yrs which is why they are sticking to water tight agreements

Alegrias
The Canada is irrelevant at present, maybe in due course something similar may emerge in the future, the current issue is the UK want to drive a coach and horses through the WA on competition and trade.

I don’t see that happening in 3 weeks, once that date has passed, it won’t happen quickly, so tariffs loom.

MaizieD

Macron has a veto, GG13, whatever his motives might be.

he just does not trust the UK's intentions- can we really be surprised?

Re Scotland- I am always amazed that people in the EU are not interested at all in visiting England- apart from London- and always head for Scotland. I always try to tell them about Devon and Cornwall, the Cotswolds, the Peaks or the Dales, Lake District, Norfolk coast, etc- but no- they want to head straight to Scotland. There is a genuine and huge affection and attraction for Scotland, and currently, a massive amount of empathy for the way they are treated by the current Government.

From what I hear and read all about me- a lot of businesses are prepared to go and settle in Scotland, or have subsidiaries in Scotland - in a huge variety of fields- knowing that it will make Scotland flourish with the new ventures. From the obsious, tourism, but a lot lot more, from all sorts of industries related to renewables, finances, and more- with direct ferries from Dublin and Norther Europe as well as new air routes.

I do believe you misjudge how the EU, the people as well as industries and governmet- see independent Scotland.