New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

Laura I know this is a really difficult concept but people hold different views to you and arent going to change them at your bequest.

Of course we’re relieved there’s a deal. No deal would have put my son at risk from disruption to medication supply. Why the fuck would I want that?

I thought May’s deal was terrible and Johnson’s is worse. The loss of Erasmus is frustrating and unnecessary. I fear for the Union. I suspect many of us will before poorer. I fear the rise in nationalism. However, I also suspect eventually we will form closer ties with Europe. The young did not want Brexit.

In the meantime at least I had the sense to marry someone born on the island of Ireland & so my children and grandchildren will be able to retain freedom of movement. I just wish everyone who wanted that could still have that.

Loved this from Richard Littlejohn.

Meanwhile, the ferocious federasts at The Guardian and The Independent are apoplectic in their condemnation, despite the fact that the agreement has been hailed by the EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen. They have only succeeded in exposing their desperation and the paucity of their argument.

Having lost all the big battles, opponents of the deal are now reduced to clutching at straws, carping about the status of Scottish-grown sprouting potatoes and something called Erasmus, which sounds like a brand of shaving foam.
Turns out Erasmus is a European student exchange programme, which is being replaced by a new scheme, named after British Enigma genius Alan Turing, and will give students the chance to attend the best overseas universities not just in Europe but anywhere in the world.

So no great hardship there, then.

CBA

The ship has sailed, get on board and help steer the course or keep on drilling holes in the underside until you sink it.

Yawn

The world has gone mad! At least certain sections of the British population seem to have.

JP Morgan reckons it's a good deal - for the EU!

From the same article Urmstongran quoted:

"But like many others, he questioned the need for Brexit to have happened at all, pointing out how even the UK prime minister, Boris Johnson, as he announced the deal, underlined enduring cultural, emotional and other attachments between the continent and Britain.

“If that’s the case, dear Bojo, wouldn’t it have been better to avoid Brexit and stay part of the family?” he asked."

And another ...

“The EU will be freer to take the steps it needs to take in order to assert itself against the USA and China – because it is running out of time to do so. Great Britain, on the other hand, might need Brexit to realise how small the bit part it will play on the world stage will really be.”

I sense some disappointment amongst EU fans on GN that we now have a deal in place? that the Armageddon they were predicting won’t now happen.
With a deal and a vaccine on the horizon for Covid, perhaps we can look forward to better times.?

Urmstongran

In the Guardian today:

“France’s Le Monde saw the deal as a political victory for Johnson, who it described as an “unsinkable political machine”, if not the unqualified triumph for Britain that he claimed to have pulled off.

“His hair is more chaotic than ever, he looks wild at every appearance and seems permanently overwhelmed by events,” the paper said. “But by pulling off a trade deal with the European Union on December 24th, the British prime minister has once again shown the usefulness of pretending to be a madman.”

Thanks Urmstrongran, made my evening.??

petra

growstuff
so tell us why they weren't included
I think you know the reason. You mentioned it a few days back.

What was that? I don't remember giving any reason. I certainly wouldn't mention what I really think on here.

So what do YOU think has been achieved? Go on! It can't be that difficult.

Urmstongran

Actually just read this, in an article by David Gauke (Remainer - remember the so called ‘Gaukward Squad’?) in the Guardian:

“In reaching a deal, the prime minister can claim a success. His political position is strengthened. But the new relationship with the EU is one he has created by dismantling the status quo of EU membership, obstructing a softer, better Brexit in the form of Theresa May’s deal and now agreeing to this new deal.”

Nb. ‘softer & better’ in the view of someone who didn’t want to leave the EU.

Boris’ deal isn’t Theresa May’s.
No wonder Remain voters wished we’d signed up for hers last summer.

Sorry, but I honestly don't think you understand what Gauke means.

Urms you’re on fire.

Actually just read this, in an article by David Gauke (Remainer - remember the so called ‘Gaukward Squad’?) in the Guardian:

“In reaching a deal, the prime minister can claim a success. His political position is strengthened. But the new relationship with the EU is one he has created by dismantling the status quo of EU membership, obstructing a softer, better Brexit in the form of Theresa May’s deal and now agreeing to this new deal.”

Nb. ‘softer & better’ in the view of someone who didn’t want to leave the EU.

Boris’ deal isn’t Theresa May’s.
No wonder Remain voters wished we’d signed up for hers last summer.

That made me laugh Ellianne!!

No it’s not Theresa May’s capitulation deal. David Frost said negotiations were so hard because the EU thought May’s deal (with a tweak here and there) would cut the mustard. Not so. Also he said that Boris’ huge majority (not May appealing for consensus - remember those farcical indicative votes?) and the certainty that this time we COULD walk away gave his team more leverage.

growstuff
so tell us why they weren't included
I think you know the reason. You mentioned it a few days back.

By all accounts I've seen, Johnson has 'delivered' virtually May's deal, the one he resigned over, only rather worse because there is now a border between Great Britain and NI, a thing that, a year or so ago, 'no UK PM would ever tolerate'.

We are quite weary of repeating the Leave campaigners' promises of 'no change', not leaving the single market, easiest deal ever etc. etc. To see leavers getting excited about a second or third rate 'deal', nothing like what was promised them, is really sad...

As for the picture of Johnson sitting with his legs on his desk, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a PM of this country behave in such a boorish way. I’m so ashamed.

Plenty of this guy!

Ah the result of a good negotiation MaizieD.
No outright ‘winner’.
Both sides achieved something.

Now?
I’m with Boris.
‘We will prosper mightily’.

Just watch.

Urmstongran

In the Guardian today:

“France’s Le Monde saw the deal as a political victory for Johnson, who it described as an “unsinkable political machine”, if not the unqualified triumph for Britain that he claimed to have pulled off.

“His hair is more chaotic than ever, he looks wild at every appearance and seems permanently overwhelmed by events,” the paper said. “But by pulling off a trade deal with the European Union on December 24th, the British prime minister has once again shown the usefulness of pretending to be a madman.”

???????????

In the Guardian today:

“France’s Le Monde saw the deal as a political victory for Johnson, who it described as an “unsinkable political machine”, if not the unqualified triumph for Britain that he claimed to have pulled off.

“His hair is more chaotic than ever, he looks wild at every appearance and seems permanently overwhelmed by events,” the paper said. “But by pulling off a trade deal with the European Union on December 24th, the British prime minister has once again shown the usefulness of pretending to be a madman.”

I think the inference from some quarters was that Boris’s intention all along was for there to be no deal, so he was just kind of going through the motions of trying to secure one.

I never believed that but he was absolutely correct in rejecting a previous offer, one which he said no Prime Minister would accept.

It was obviously a struggle so no wonder he looked delighted in one picture.

It reminded me of the joyful jubilation when the exit polls predicted a huge Tory majority in the General Election.

Is it too much to hope that the complaining and arguing about Brexit might now finally stop?!

Urmstongran

And this one encapsulates the joy for those who voted for Brexit!

Boris actually achieved what so many said he he wasn’t even attempting!

I don't understand what you think he's achieved.

It appears to be Norway Xtra-Lite with stringent LPF conditions and, despite petra's enigmatic comments, nothing for services. And very little for fish...

Perhaps someone could enlighten us?

I’m not ashamed of Boris. At all. He stuck to his guns and delivered on his manifesto.

I’m sure I read (somewhere) yesterday that this is the first time a democratically decided referendum has ever had the result delivered? As unlike, say, the Lisbon treaty etc ‘go away and think about it then vote again’.

Brilliant when a cross on a ballot box actually means something. Makes a nice change. Wonder what Nicola Sturgeon thinks of that idea?

growstuff sorry I didn’t make myself clear there. I meant that so many who didn’t vote for Leave slagged Boris off these last few months on here, saying he had absolutely no intention of trying to get a deal. He was all bluster! He was in it for his mates to make a financial killing. It would be no deal & then he and Carrie would leave No.10 in January!

Wrong.
?

growstuff

petra

i cannot understand why services were not included
It's all on line. Not something you will hear explained on the news.

So tell us why they weren't included.

I find that picture of Johnson...in the middle of a pandemic....nauseating. As for the one of him sitting with his legs on his desk, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a PM of this country behave in such a boorish way. I’m so ashamed.

petra

^i cannot understand why services were not included^
It's all on line. Not something you will hear explained on the news.

So tell us why they weren't included.