New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

lemongrove

LauraNorder

Well you do now Nezumi

Haha and here’s yet another one today
As predicted, the EU go to the last minute with negotiations,
But a good outcome, and cheerful news for Christmas.?

I suppose it would be too much for you to explain why it is a better deal than the UK had in the EU.

Maybe there's somebody who actually knows.

growstuff

lemongrove

So OTT growstuff ?

You'll be dead when it's written. We've already written the first couple of chapters.

Really growstuff how do you know the date of my demise??

Welshwife

It seems the Erasmus scheme actually gave U.K. a net gain - it paid students from a joint EU fund a bursary of €400 a month. It will be interesting to see what the new scheme will be and where the students will be able to study.

The government’s proposed Turing scheme to replace Erasmus will not bring students from overseas to the UK. The advantage of Erasmus was that our students benefited from European experience and here we benefited from European students with different perspectives contacts etc joining us.

Erasmus covered academics as well as students, so all universities were able to benefit from having extended expertise.

LauraNorder

Well you do now Nezumi

Haha and here’s yet another one today
As predicted, the EU go to the last minute with negotiations,
But a good outcome, and cheerful news for Christmas.?

lemongrove

So OTT growstuff ?

You'll be dead when it's written. We've already written the first couple of chapters.

Nezumi65

MaizieD

No passporting rights. The City will not be pleased. Financial services was 80% of out trade with the EU.

That’s what I thought was said. Is that something that is yet to be negotiated or is that it? If that’s it no wonder Merkel is so pleased

It really is no wonder. Frankfurt is booming as a result of Brexit. Even if "equivalence" is negotiated, it isn't a substitute for the passporting rights the UK in the EU had. Services account for something like 70% of all UK foreign income. To be quite blunt, they're up sh*t creek. It will also mean that billionaires in the UK can squirrel their money abroad and it will be even less accountable than it is now.

So OTT growstuff ?

Lucretzia

Goodness me. Such angst!

It will all be fine

We are here very fleetingly. The next generation will do their thing.

And I wanted to stay.

But we voted to leave

I accept this

We might like to think we're all hugely important but we're not

This is a moment in history.

It will be forgotten

No matter what a bunch of grans say!

Indeed! 2021 will be one chapter in "The Fall of Britain".

Welshwife

It seems the Erasmus scheme actually gave U.K. a net gain - it paid students from a joint EU fund a bursary of €400 a month. It will be interesting to see what the new scheme will be and where the students will be able to study.

Indeed it did. My daughter took part in an Erasmus programme. Her UK university charged her fees, which it took and used to pay for exchange students. The EU paid my daughter a bursary to study abroad.

Jane10

Sigh. I did not mean that we should return to the 1950s re universities. I meant that universities and students have exchanged throughout Europe (and beyond) long before the EU came about.

I know. I was one of them too. However, the old schemes were nowhere near so comprehensive and well-organised as Erasmus and weren't available in most subjects.

MaizieD

No passporting rights. The City will not be pleased. Financial services was 80% of out trade with the EU.

That’s what I thought was said. Is that something that is yet to be negotiated or is that it? If that’s it no wonder Merkel is so pleased

Lucca

MayBee70

Lucca

The joy and whooping remind me of a hunt in full cry!! Hilarious reaction.

It was embarrassing in comparison to the dignified speech given by Ursula Von der Leyan but I wouldn’t have expected gravity or dignity from the PM.

I meant on here !!

Sorry. I thought you meant those awful pictures of Boris waving his arms about!

No passporting rights. The City will not be pleased. Financial services was 80% of out trade with the EU.

Well done Boris, excellent news. Thank you and David Frost for all your hard work this year. Champagne all round in this house.????

(And I know they are different things - just falls under the same narrative - British laws for British people sovereignty blah blah blah)

The loss of the European Court of Justice is a terrible thing.

Humans Rights Act will be gone next. As someone with a son whose right to a family life was broken by NHS (not hyperbole - his case was used as an example by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights as an example of a learning disabled person having their rights breached) just another example of a huge step backwards.

This, cut & paste, tonight in The a Telegraph by James Crisp who voted Remain:

“The clock is no longer ticking,” said Michel Barnier in Brussels, finally laying to rest a metaphor he never tired of deploying against Britain.

Despite that, and occasional cross words, there is a real sense of respect between Mr Barnier and David Frost.

The two men couldn’t look more different, or think more differently about global power politics, but they share a mental toughness and determination.

There are already those who are carping that the new Brexit trade deal is a poor replacement for EU membership.

This misses the point. From the moment the UK left the EU on January 31, a zero-tariff, zero-quota trade deal was a substantial improvement on the alternative of WTO terms.

It is true that Britain has made some major concessions, notably in fishing, and some sacrifices, such as the loss of the Erasmus + student exchange programme.

But it is also true, as I argue here, that the final shape of the deal is far closer to the Canada plus that Brexiteers wanted, than the vision pushed by the EU.

Britain will have control over access to its waters in five and a half years. The European Court of Justice will have no role in British affairs. Future governments will be able to diverge from EU rules if they accept the consequences on trade with its major trading partner.

This delivers on the promises of the General Election. The deal is not perfect but compromise is in the nature of any agreement.

David Frost made sovereignty the guiding principle of his negotiating strategy, and both sides will claim victory as they begin to sell the deal to their own sides. Both sides will know that with less than a week to no deal, things could have been much worse.”

?

Damage limitation - but still an utter tragedy.

Or maybe he waited to the last moment so there's no time to scrutinise it. Basically parliament agrees to Johnson's deal, barely seen, or we have no deal.

In 2016 about 25% of the UK population voted for brexit. Since then, quite a lot have died and others have changed their minds, so this brexit nonsense is hardly supported by more that one in five of us.

For people who love percentages and the people’s voice etc poll after poll recently has found that people think it would have been better to stay.

I guess if we get those sunlit uplands promised then that may swing back again. If not & Northern Ireland and Scotland pull away (both have already started their campaigns) then the numbers who think we should have stayed will grow.

We’ll see over the next few year.

From a purely information point of view -
Does anyone know what is happening with the City? Nothing seems to have been sorted about that and it’s pretty important for the U.K. GDP! I can’t work out whether it’s all still to be sorted.

Nezumi65
I did post @ 15.37 that I had opened a lovely bottle of English sparkling wine. Cheers ???

No-one could tell you that Nezumi65

Things will get worse for everyone except for a tiny number of billionaire currency speculators and the vultures of disaster capitalism.

MayBee70

Lucca

The joy and whooping remind me of a hunt in full cry!! Hilarious reaction.

It was embarrassing in comparison to the dignified speech given by Ursula Von der Leyan but I wouldn’t have expected gravity or dignity from the PM.

I meant on here !!

Maybe now someone can tell me how things will get better for the average man on the street.