A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

Dinahmo, you seem to assume that we'd be welcomed back! Brexit is a mere drop in the ocean of our troubles anyway now.

The pandemic is devastating - as will be it's aftermath - yet the worst possible thing on the horizon, climate change, threatens us with extinction.

So, fingers in ears, rose coloured specs on, let's deny or ignore it, shall we?

Urmstongran

I completely understand MaizieD about a democratic vote. Just can’t get my head around why this one hasn’t been accepted!

(cue varian coming on and telling us ‘you mean the unlawful referendum’) 3, 2 1 ...

If Starmer wins on a ticket to rejoin (upfront and not sneakily through the back door which I think is what the LP will try to do) absolutely I’d respect the outcome. I’d think ‘bugger’ but I’d stand with the majority vote. It’s in my nature you see.

Whereas, if you don’t mind me saying you are one bitter individual over the referendum aren’t you? If I extend a hand of friendship you’d bite my fingers.

If you hold onto that bitterness it’ll just eat you up inside. Try to let that toxic emotion go.

Yes, absolutely do call out when you uncover false promises or bad administration. But mean-spirited posts don’t help anyone.

You included.

You’ll miss meeting up with a lot of nice, fun & kind people if you rigidly hold that line.

Some people have been complaining about the EU since we joined. They haven't stopped. They didn't accept the democratic vote. So why should those of us who would like to rejoin accept the last democratic vote?

Urmstongran

MayBee you are contradicting yourself.

Your last posts starts up ‘I’m a bitter person too I don’t want to be friends with people who voted Leave’ ... then you finish up saying ‘I’m not bitter and twisted’.

confused.com
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Can’t we try to be kinder? As in - not to make things so personal over Brexit? You got a vote. I got one. We’re quits surely!

Yes. The minute I clicked post I realised that you’d pick up on that. The first sentence was meant to be a I’m Spartacus moment in response to what Maizie had said.

Gaga ... THIS was the comment I thought mean spirited & bitter ...

And I will never have enough common ground with you or other Leavers that would induce me to have tea with them. So count me out of your little party..)

Wowzer!
See what I’m getting at here?

Which is also why I stay über calm. Getting riled up gets one reported. It’s not worth a smack down from the moderators.

Play nice is my motto.
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The thing is, we CAN disagree and argue violently about issues but should not fall to making personal comments. All we did was put a bit of paper in a ballot box. It is the politicians that are screwing up. It doesn't insult a person personally to say the PM or an opposition MP is a waste of space, idiot etc.

But when we turn that on the poster, calling them 'bitter' or 'mean spirited' it is personal.

Some things ARE intolerable. Racism. Homophobia. But otherwise it is just a difference of opinion.

MayBee you are contradicting yourself.

Your last posts starts up ‘I’m a bitter person too I don’t want to be friends with people who voted Leave’ ... then you finish up saying ‘I’m not bitter and twisted’.

confused.com
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Can’t we try to be kinder? As in - not to make things so personal over Brexit? You got a vote. I got one. We’re quits surely!

Gaga read the thread.
I was being nice. Truly.

I’m a bitter person, too. I don’t want to be friends with people who voted leave. I do have a few acquaintances that I’d so and they all slip the odd racist comment into conversations. I never agree with them or even respond to their comments but they never notice. I’m not saying that every leave voter is racist but the ones I know are. I can’t unfriended them completely but it makes for very difficult situations where I have to walk away biting my lip. Of the people I regard as close friends none of them voted leave. And new friends that I’ve made over the past few years through anti brexit political campaigns have turned out to be people who I find I have much more than just politics in common with. I’m just saying it as it is: I even have good friends who vote Conservative now because they campaigned alongside me. I’m not bitter and twisted: it makes me angry but it isn’t eating me up inside.

We have left the United States of Europe, we are still part of Europe (unless someone has towed the UK into the Atlantic without us noticing)

Being bitter and vindictive to those who voted leave, continuously going over the same old arguments doesn’t benefit anyone.

Most leave voters have stopped posting on the political threads due to the constant drip drip drip of insults and snide remarks.

However we do not report these, it’s better to leave them on threads for all to see.

Can't help but make things personal can you UG?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well it’s just pizza from Sainsbury’s. No shortages of foodstuffs in there today.

And it doesn’t stop Remainer’s thinking they can just overturn a democratic vote in a cavalier fashion PippaZ which is what Leavers find so utterly condescending.

In a democracy 'anything' can be overturned if enough people vote for it. Do you not understand that, Ug?

If a party were to stand in the next General Election on a manifesto promise of rejoining the EU and it won, then rejoining the EU would be a democratic act.

This is a hypothetical, btw, before you get arsey about 'Remainers' wet dreams'

(And I will never have enough common ground with you or other Leavers that would induce me to have tea with them. So count me out of your little party..)

Maybe some would accept your offer Urmstongran when you can guarantee all the ingredients for tea are available, including for those in Northern Ireland?

And it doesn’t stop Remainer’s thinking they can just overturn a democratic vote in a cavalier fashion PippaZ which is what Leavers find so utterly condescending.

We need to find some common ground. Both sides. Be a bit kinder to one another. Disagree but without the snide comments.

Would you like to come to tea?
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I’ll just check Petera with the Department of Guessology.
Bear with me ...

The actual quotation for Liverpool by the Conservatives was “managed decline”.

That doesn't change the fact that the way leave voters still talk to remain voters is not helpful.

Urmstongran

^making comments like that about leavers is not going to help.^

Erm ... I think you meant Remain voters there PippaZ??

I’m muddled. My brain hurts. I’m going to put my index finger away for a bit.
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I did. Thank you for pointing it out.

Amongst the many drawbacks to leaving must be the future abandonment of northern cities like Liverpool who benefited greatly from the EU’s unbiased and generous contributions, not only on in a practical way, but also vast investment in the arts.
However we know firstly, that the Conservatives believe in ‘natural decline’ for a once great port city like Liverpool and secondly, a disregard for supporting the arts and culture.
A country like Germany puts us to shame in this way.

Urmstongran

It’s showing we will be on our way to a positive soon enough WW as businesses get slicker at the new rules & regs. After 40+ years of doing business in a certain way, complaining on DAY 8 is unreasonable.

Just so we know, on what day would you find a complaint reasonable? Day 50? Day 100? Day 3000?

Genuinely interested - I'll put it in my diary.

making comments like that about leavers is not going to help.

Erm ... I think you meant Remain voters there PippaZ??

I’m muddled. My brain hurts. I’m going to put my index finger away for a bit.
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Urmstongran

pippaZ this bit is what I vehemently did not agree with ...

Cindersdad
Though I have not yet been affected by Brexit I have always said that it was and continues to be a colossal mistake. Over the coming months it will strike home though masked by Covid affecting more of us. In some ways I hope it goes badly and the government is forced to beg to rejoin, with or without a referendum.. (my underlining).

That was the remark I said was right up any Remain voter’s Utopia.

Not the bit about a 2nd referendum (won’t happen anyway) or the next GE when Labour might try to water Brexit down.

I was therefore misquoted earlier.

You were not misquoted. To do that I would have had to quote something inaccurately. I did not. I can see you did not like me quoting the piece I did to underline the point I was making but that is an entirely different thing to misquoting.

I can also see that you did not like something in Cindersdad's post but you are actually misquoting yourself above - and I can see why - when you say "That was the remark I said was right up any Remain voter’s Utopia." You didn't. You said "A Remainer’s wet dream, right there."

My point was not your point. It was that if those who voted leave want everyone to work together - and it must be more and more obvious that at some point we must to get us out of the mess we are in - making comments like that about leavers is not going to help.

Well Cindersdad seems to hope that everything will fall apart MayBe and if that were to happen, it stands to reason that people would suffer.

I think Alexa is referring to the Tory government Smileless not those people who voted for them.