The Good that Men do - Donald Trump?

Would you have wanted Trump, who has been seen to care so little for American lives, to have been re-elected?

His incitement to violence has caused violence and death.

We saw the same thing in this country in 2016 when Jo Cox MP was murdered by a violent brexiter who had been incited by the irresponsible speech of political extremists.

Language is powerful and words can be weapons.

In times of political and social turmoil they can inspire people and change the course of history.

They can also have a negative impact and be used to rabble-rouse and create circumstances of tension and fear.

P.s. I still think, the pandemic did for him. Without the financial havoc and uncertainty I think Trump would have won the election.

The extra 3 weeks allowed till election, the push for postal votes, all factors aligned and worked against him.

Ah well.

A very measured post Jane43 and the Forbes article seems to sum it all up quite well.

Trump was antagonistic towards Obama. It appealed to the voters probably. ‘Look, I can do better. You deserve better’.

Trump wasn’t a politician. Especially at the beginning I think that was in his favour. People were fed up of politicians. They wanted a change. They wanted that ‘swamp’ drained.

Sadly as you say he over-promised and under-delivered.

He’s toast now.
I think.

This is from Forbes magazine. Regarding replacing ‘Obamacare’ it seems Trump overpromised and underdelivered, hmm who does that remind me of. This is an extract from an article in Forbes magazine:

“For quite some time President Trump has promised, using characteristically hyperbolic language, “phenomenal healthcare” to replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA), otherwise known as Obamacare.

Today, September 24th, Trump unveiled an “America First Health Care Plan” that is not an actual plan. It contains precious little, other than a symbolic gesture to ensure those with pre-existing conditions can get coverage (already in the ACA), a promise of $200 gift certificates for seniors to help with their prescription drug purchases (it’s anyone’s guess where the money will come from for this ploy), and a vague statement requiring hospitals and insurance companies to be more transparent in terms of their pricing. The only actual policy measure put forward was a pledge to work with Congress to end hospital surprise billing.

Last month, Trump released a wish list of sorts called “Fighting for America.” It’s not a healthcare plan, or a replacement for the ACA. At best it’s a set of aspirations dubbed as a healthcare agenda. At worst, it’s sloganeering of the have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too kind often seen during an election cycle.”

Doubtless there were some positives during his term but the groundwork for these ideas would surely have come from the people who were part of his administration, he just signed the documents. There is ample evidence to show that his general knowledge is very limited and his knowledge of politics is probably no better.

For years, Republicans have lambasted Obamacare, and promised that a full replacement for the Affordable Care Act is in the works.

But more than 10 years after the ACA was signed into law, no major GOP replacement plan has surfaced.

Trump's administration has instituted incremental changes to the landmark healthcare law, and zeroed out the universal coverage mandate.

Evidence suggests he would do more of the same if given a second term, largely leaving the ACA alone.

Biden, if elected, would likely usher in a different set of tweaks to the law: he's floated the ideas of a public option, and more health insurance tax credits available to middle- and upper-class Americans on ACA plans.

Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

Did he really think that though? I think he was so threatened by Obama that he just wanted to tear down anything he did. In addition to social medicine being against Republican principles.

I remember reading that Trump thought Obamacare wasn’t value for money for the taxpayers dollars? He insisted it could be bettered.

It wasn’t though as far as I recall. Must look up what happened there.

I agree UG. Politeness is all. As is keeping it impersonal.

He also wanted to destroy Obama care because he wanted to destroy anything associated with Obama, because Obama laughed at him. I dont think it was just lack of empathy for others (although that is obviously a factor) it was revenge.

Listen everybody I’m okay to post, really. It’s a discussion. I don’t take comments personally. We go back & forth!

I suppose as I’m the main contender here posting alternative views from the mainstream it can seem intense but I feel it’s a fair thread.

As I said I do tend to play Devils Advocate sometimes.

It’s good to be civil.
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Even if I accept your positive spin on some of trump's actions urmstongran, the bad vastly outweighs anything positive.
As MOnica says, his contribution to the Israeli-Palestinian problem doesn't begin to improve it. Moving the US embassy to Jerusalem was wrong.
He's a sleazy crook who should never have been President. He's leaving his country even more divided and I'mcertain. thats what he aimed for. Divide and rule.
More people are dying of covid than were killed in the Vietnam war. He wanted to destroy Obama care which at least was an attempt to provide health care. He has no empathy or compassion, he cares only about himself.

varian

Trump refusing to pay Giulliani's legal feesr

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/14/trump-refusing-to-pay-rudy-giuliani-legal-fees-after-falling-out

Yes I saw that. Giuliani won’t be representing him in the impeachment trial, although given Giuliani could hardly represent him after his “war by combat” remark.

What a shower they are.

Urmston no one is attacking you, but quite simply the amount of damage Trump has done to his country in so many ways, its place in the world, especially after he effectively incited his supporters to stage a coup last week, out weighs any little good he accidentally did.

As for Marmite, well only if you are comparing him with Putin, Chavez, Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping.

In an election that saw the largest turnout yet at an American election, he got fewer votes than the winner. In his first election he got fewer votes than the loser. He has never had the majority vote. In a politically polarised country like the US, many of his voters were simply republican voters voting for the republican candidate.

Yes, he has his zealot supporters, but the thing that struck me about last weeks abortive coup, is how few people there were there. Normally when you see events in Washington, you are looking at a sea of people, no tarmac visible for huge distances around. Last weeks demonstration didn't even fill the small area around The Capitol building. Lots of visible tarmac, groups chatting and just wandering around.

But lets face it look at Boris Johnson's reputation before he was voted in as leader. Not as rich as Trump, but just as creative with the truth, yet the majority of conservative mebers voted him in as leader and swarms of lifelong Labour voters voted for him in the 2019 election.

Trump refusing to pay Giulliani's legal feesr

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/14/trump-refusing-to-pay-rudy-giuliani-legal-fees-after-falling-out

Look - I’m not his guardian angel. I recognise the man is Marmite. He achieved some good things (which is why he garnered more votes this time around) an stayed true to his manifesto. A surprise to many in itself.

I think I just wanted to illustrate some things that weren’t ‘evil’.

But I’m not here to paint a halo. He let a lot of people down and he achieved little in some eyes. Fair enough. They voted him out & they get a turn now.

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As I understand he gave much larger tax cuts to wealthier people. Reducing government revenue comes at a price, which is cuts in governemtn services.

Trump left to himself would have abolished the Medicare Act that Obama introduced, fortunately for the poor and sick in the US he was stopped from doing so.

His treatment of immigrants, specifically those coming over from Mexico, not only splitting parents from children but doing it in a way that made it difficult to re-unite them and the pictures of the conditions many of the children were kept in were appalling.

And then of course last September he lifted the ban on the execution of Federal prisoners condemned to death. Since then 8 people have been executed and 2 more are expected to die before the 20th

In the balance of good and bad, the scales are very heavily weighted towards the evil this man did, the very occasional minor thing he did that advantaged anyone wasthan paid for by the evil he did

Don’t think so EV it cost a lot of taxpayer dollars and is proving popular with many. A leaky half job as it was before was no use to beast or man.

Urmstongran

Knew about tax changes.
Here you go.

“NEARLY DOUBLING THE STANDARD TAX DEDUCTION

The 2017 tax bill failed to deliver an investment boom, but it did lighten the tax load of many low-income earners, as well as simplify their life. Before the tax bill, the standard deduction for taxpayers was $6,350 for single people, $9,350 for heads of household, and $12,700 for married couples. (There was also a personal exemption of $4,050.) Beyond that protected amount, low-income taxpayers could deduct additional amounts—if they kept proper records.

The tax law swept away that need for record-keeping by lower-wage workers. And it nearly doubled the standard deduction: For income earned in 2020, single people pay no income tax on their first $12,400, heads of household on their first $18,650, and married couples on their first $24,800.

This measure did a real service not only to the working poor, but to many middle-income families, who can deduct more while reporting less.”

Or he could have used the money for health care. Just think of that?

I wonder if " the wall " will come down ?

Knew about tax changes.
Here you go.

“NEARLY DOUBLING THE STANDARD TAX DEDUCTION

The 2017 tax bill failed to deliver an investment boom, but it did lighten the tax load of many low-income earners, as well as simplify their life. Before the tax bill, the standard deduction for taxpayers was $6,350 for single people, $9,350 for heads of household, and $12,700 for married couples. (There was also a personal exemption of $4,050.) Beyond that protected amount, low-income taxpayers could deduct additional amounts—if they kept proper records.

The tax law swept away that need for record-keeping by lower-wage workers. And it nearly doubled the standard deduction: For income earned in 2020, single people pay no income tax on their first $12,400, heads of household on their first $18,650, and married couples on their first $24,800.

This measure did a real service not only to the working poor, but to many middle-income families, who can deduct more while reporting less.”

Urmstongran

Don’t be daft WW I can just identify the optics if that situation. It doesn’t take an Einstein to work out what’s going on.

As you wish

Don’t be daft WW I can just identify the optics if that situation. It doesn’t take an Einstein to work out what’s going on.

I think he raised the spirits of many blue collar workers MOnica. For whatever reason as a poster said upthread, most of them don’t trust the Democrats.

He did alter the tax codes, leaving more money in more worker’s pockets. I’d have to look that up though. I read about it some months ago & cant recall the details.

I’d say that was good.

Urmstongran

I know. Sleeping on the hard floor too as Pelosi walks past on the way to her bed.

It’s all about the optics. ‘Ooh we’re so scared’. Good politicking though don’t blame them.

You sound as if you are in lockstep with the insurrectionists.

Urmston OP asked whether Trump did any good during his time in office. Appointing judges is just an administrative function nothing special about that - and remember within weeks of his latest supreme court appointee, a women considered very right wing, she voted to throw out an attempt he made to appeal to that court to overturn the election result.

Judges come and judges go, but did he do anything good?