The E.U. And AstraZeneca row.

biba70

Indeed- not the country, at all. Au contraire- it is seeing what this Governement is doing to a country we so love.

They were elected so there's not much anyone can do about that. But at the next GE you will get the chance to vote them out.

Something EU citizens can't do with the EU Commission.

To be fair I felt the same way when Blair and Co were in government. I, to this day, abhor Tony Blair and, yes I did vote him in originally. I’ve always voted Labour until I saw through Mr Blair.

Not you, LauraNorder, sorry, I should have made that clear.

Those who believe that the UN should be called upon to take charge of the vaccination programme worldwide.

Whitewavemark2

In which case they alone would be sufficient for the whole country.

Numbers are getting to look ridiculous now.

It’s like you see monkeys grabbing all the food or toys etc and trying to fend off the rest of its family whilst not remotely being able to eat it or play with it all.

And why do we have so much?. It’s not because we failed to act quickly enough, it’s because our government had the foresight and acted quickly. Would you prefer that we didn’t have enough to go round. Of course we will be generous with our surplus but isn’t it best to wait till everyone is vaccinated.

I had my jab yesterday and my doctor told me that she was very happy to be giving me the AZ but she wasn’t happy about the .... coming out of Germany and France.

LauraNorder

The numbers are to be expected as the orders were placed before efficacy could be known so sensible government covers all bases.
It has already been acknowledged that our surplus will be used in less privileged countries.

Yes, as they always do, Britain will help other, less privileged, countries.

I think you are misunderstanding the references to the UN.

Back from a long walk to blow the cobwebs away!

I could understand this if we, the UK, were stockpiling vaccines in a cupboard! We aren’t, we are ADMINISTERING them as quickly as possible. We have supply difficulties ourselves. Nicola Sturgeon was only saying so last week.

There would seem little point taking supplies off us when (a) our negotiated contract with the manufacturers is valid and paid for up front and (b) our UK death figures are so very high. Yes, everyone possible needs to be vaccinated, world wide. But to take off us to redistribute to the EU does not make any sense as long as we are jabbing ferociously and not just sat looking at it!

Not like monkeys at all with too much food or toys. We need every jab we can get. Look at the longer wait between jabs to try to mitigate demand.

Whitewave the will is certainly there. However we have only managed to vaccinate 8 million people in a month in the UK. Will alone hasn’t made it possible to vaccinate everybody.

Vaccine grabbing and rattling is so so dangerous, and not 'just' with the EU.

Indeed- not the country, at all. Au contraire- it is seeing what this Governement is doing to a country we so love.

tickingbird

Then continue pulling the government to pieces over the rising deaths? Boris has already stated that some of the vaccine we have will be going to Africa. Macron stopped a shipment of PPE destined for us last year. Why should the people of the UK go without for the sake of Europe? The amount of flak this government have taken since this awful situation began is immense. Some of it justified but not all by a long way. When they get something right, they are still in the wrong. I find it depressing how some appear to hate their own country so much.

Tickingbird, It’s not the country they hate, it’s the Conservative party. Surely you must see this.

LauraNorder

What would you have us do Whitewave? It is logistically impossible to supply enough vaccine and to get it in to all arms worldwide at the same time.
Western governments will protect their own for largely political reasons but will also endeavour, at the same time, to protect their own citizens by making every effort to protect others throughout the world, as far as possible.
This may be simplistic but is nevertheless true.
I understand that the whole process needs to be speedy if we are to avoid more deadly variants evolving but I also understand that the logistics involved are nigh on impossible
There is also a case for keeping our own society strong both in health and economy so that we continue to be in a position to help those less fortunate or able elsewhere.

I would have us follow the science/biology not the politics, or greed.

The logistics are not impossible if the will is there.

The whole point is that unless we tackle this virus as a global phenomena the U.K. will never be safe or strong.

The numbers are to be expected as the orders were placed before efficacy could be known so sensible government covers all bases.
It has already been acknowledged that our surplus will be used in less privileged countries.

In which case they alone would be sufficient for the whole country.

Numbers are getting to look ridiculous now.

It’s like you see monkeys grabbing all the food or toys etc and trying to fend off the rest of its family whilst not remotely being able to eat it or play with it all.

What would you have us do Whitewave? It is logistically impossible to supply enough vaccine and to get it in to all arms worldwide at the same time.
Western governments will protect their own for largely political reasons but will also endeavour, at the same time, to protect their own citizens by making every effort to protect others throughout the world, as far as possible.
This may be simplistic but is nevertheless true.
I understand that the whole process needs to be speedy if we are to avoid more deadly variants evolving but I also understand that the logistics involved are nigh on impossible
There is also a case for keeping our own society strong both in health and economy so that we continue to be in a position to help those less fortunate or able elsewhere.

The Glaxo should be interesting as last I heard they were developing an immune adjunct, so I wonder if it means just one shot?

Maths error. Possible additional doses 210 million, I missed the Jansen ones off.

These are the vaccines that the UK has secured:

Oxford-AstraZeneca – 100 million doses
Valneva – 60 million doses
Novavax – 60 million doses
GlaxoSmithKline – 60 million doses
Pfizer-BioNTech – 40 million doses Janssen – 30 million doses
Moderna – 17 million doses

Three have been approved, Astra Zeneca, Pfizer and Moderna. A total of 157million doses. This alone is sufficient to give 2 doses to every single member of the UK jpopulation. (UK pop. is Just under 70 million)

Then there are another theoretical 180 million doses available if the remaining vaccines are approved. Enough to double dose the whole population again, with a few million to spare.

It looks as though we are in a good position to share with with other countries.

Or am I missing something?

(And no, I don't expect them to all be available at once, I realise that there is a time element in manufacturing them)

And, it should be noted that A16 was not invoked.

"we seem to be going through a particular unpleasant period in our history of me me me and sod the rest of you". The EU's 'threat' to interfere with the pre ordered vaccinations destined for the UK looks to me like 'us us us and sod the UK'.

Laura yes I can see exactly what you are saying, but from an objective biological perspective it makes no sense.

The virus doesn’t operate in the way we would like but is an excellent opportunist that will make the most of every chink in our armour of which if we allow it through nationalistic actions will be immense.

Whitewavemark2

LauraNorder

I’m pretty sure that politicians are well aware that ‘no one is secure until we are all secure’.
Our government has been elected to look after our interests and whilst ensuring that we are all vaccinated they will also be ensuring that the poorest countries will too. Whether for altruistic reasons or purely selfish motives it will happen worldwide.
Just a we would all ensure our own children are fed before we fed others.

Too simplistic

I apologise for my reply it was too dismissive.

LauraNorder

I’m pretty sure that politicians are well aware that ‘no one is secure until we are all secure’.
Our government has been elected to look after our interests and whilst ensuring that we are all vaccinated they will also be ensuring that the poorest countries will too. Whether for altruistic reasons or purely selfish motives it will happen worldwide.
Just a we would all ensure our own children are fed before we fed others.

Too simplistic

PippaZ

I agree with it too but I do feel a bit guilty that this would mean I would get my vaccine but deny, for a period of time, others getting theirs.

But you see we can’t look at it in such a subjective way? Well we can but those making such decisions can’t and mustn’t

No harm with feeling guilty that’s being human, but the scientists will/should look at it for the greater good of the species.

I realise I’m talking into the wind though because we seem to be going through a particular unpleasant period in our history of me me me and sod the rest of you.

Disagreeing with a government isnot hating our own country. Democracy and free speech are two of the things I most appreciate about this country.

I’m pretty sure that politicians are well aware that ‘no one is secure until we are all secure’.
Our government has been elected to look after our interests and whilst ensuring that we are all vaccinated they will also be ensuring that the poorest countries will too. Whether for altruistic reasons or purely selfish motives it will happen worldwide.
Just a we would all ensure our own children are fed before we fed others.

Then continue pulling the government to pieces over the rising deaths? Boris has already stated that some of the vaccine we have will be going to Africa. Macron stopped a shipment of PPE destined for us last year. Why should the people of the UK go without for the sake of Europe? The amount of flak this government have taken since this awful situation began is immense. Some of it justified but not all by a long way. When they get something right, they are still in the wrong. I find it depressing how some appear to hate their own country so much.