Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

Thank you for answering Jane10

So, as I thought, you have no faith in your fellow citizens to elect a competent government.

Wanting to stay in the Union is a valid position. Thinking that this country and its citizens don't have the sense to run its own affairs, not so much.

It's quite simple Alegrias we have no confidence in their running the country right now after having had the chance to for 13+ years. Why on earth would we want to cut ties with our greatest support and somehow hope for the best after independence?
It would be like casting off a ship into stormy waters with a dangerously inept crew and only the hope of a new crew miraculously being found.
I'd certainly mutiny but would prefer not to board at all.

Why, oh why do people insist on telling everyone how terrible they think the SNP are at running the country as a reason for not wanting independence?

That's a serious question. I'd like to know

Maybe one of the silent majority can tell me.

Dustyhen if Westminster is providing those things to Scotland, why is it not providing them to England also?

I'm fed up with talk of another referendum. I am also fed up with coronavirus and talk of how the vaccine roll-out is going. I am also fed up with the winter. That doesn't mean that I won't vote for independence or take my vaccine gratefully when it is offered, or enjoy walking through the snow.

Perhaps after independence, some people will move north, Dustyhen2010.

Dustyhen I think you'll find OUR taxes pay for those things and a hell of a lot more beside.I do wish some people would research and find the truth not the westminster version of it.IF ...we are such a burden on the WM economy why in the name of all and any god are they so desperate to hold onto us .It doesn't make sense.this is a governmnet that wont pay for a spare room for someone who needs it why would they subsidise a whole country???

I think a lot of people in Scotland are fed up of talk of another referendum. We are dealing with a health crisis plus Brexit and don't need anything else piled on us. We had the once in a lifetime vote and that should be it. I feel our FM has done well in the pandemic and I also think she has made it very clear that her covid briefings are not to be highjacked by independence questions. But I am disappointed that this constance background noise of independence is still ongoing. I think the SNP will get in at the next election but that does not mean that everyone who votes for them wants independence. They have sadly not done well with the health service or education. Scotland used to be well ahead in education league tables but those days have long gone. Also there is a terrible record for drug deaths which is a situation which hasn't been dealt with properly. In Scotland I feel we do well out of our situation. If you go to university tuition fees are paid for. If you are infirm you can have carers in 4x per day for years totally free. Prior to retiral age I had free prescriptions. The car parks in my town are free as are the car parks in large hospitals in the area. Why would anyone want to change this?! My friend from England was so surprised when she visited as in every car park we went to in my area she would say 'don't tell me, you don't have to pay here'. Why would anyone what to give all this up?! We do not have enough money to cover all these benefits. And where would we have been without the vaccine organisation from Westminster. There is certainly a significant publicly silent group against independence here if discussions with my peers are anything to go by. I hope it doesn't come as several of my friends have said they would move south if it did and they wouldn't be the only ones.

varian

I have never, in many years of party membership met a LibDem who would ever see themselves as to the right of the conservatives PippaZ. However there have been instances where we were on some policies to the left of the Labour Party which is in many ways conservative with a small "c". We do believe in having a mixed economy, but the ownership of companies should not be the main issue, rather what would best serve our communities.

Speaking personally, I joined the Liberals in the 1970s because we had moved to a part of the country where there were only two parties the Liberals and the Tories. The Labour Party hardly existed, although there was a time when our local Tory Councillor was so worried about being defeated by our Liberal candidate that she persuaded the postman (a very popular chap) to stand for Labour by telling him that his union would pay his costs, which they did. I am glad to say she was still beaten by the Liberal!

When the SDP was formed and we met the local members, I thought that they were just the same as us except that they had taken a bit longer to come to the same conclusion, that social democracy was preferable to the entrenched policies of the union dominated Labour Party. Because of the undemocratic FPTP system of elections, it is difficult enough for one centre left party to compete, let alone two and so merging was the best way forward. Although I have probably never at any time believed in every single party policy, I very much identified with leaders like Roy Jenkins, David Steel, Shirley Williams and Paddy Ashdown and I think in the present difficult circumstances, Ed Davey is doing a good job..

There is no need for anyone who believes in trying to build a fair society ever feeling politically homeless.

Thank you for such an in-depth answer Varian.

I don't think that Scotland pipes any water to England.

We have a big reservoir, Keilder, in Northumberland that is, I understand, barely used. It was built to supply industry but the industries it was meant to serve declined soon after.

We also have the very big Derwent Reservoir which serves the North East.

I think that a Scottish supply is highly unlikely.

I can't answer your question, Anniebach but you will probably find out on the net.

Was a valley in Scotland given the same treatment as Capel
Celyn ? 35 MP’s from Wales voted against the flooding 1 MP
abstained, the valley was flooded and the people were told they could pay to have bodies dug up and buried elsewhere or
left at the bottom of the reservoir.

Liverpool apologised 40 years later

Reservoirs in Scotland are mainly (but not exclusively) in remote places high up in the mouintains. I don't doubt that piping the water south of the border could be done, given the expensive infrastructure.

No problem Elegran - I was interested because there’s quite a lot of angst in Wales about it, as reservoirs were created at the expense of people’s homes and farms. We do get plenty of rain though!

I thought they did, Casdon, but like you I now can't find any evidence - their website says "throughout Scotland". I seem to remember talk some time ago about a sort of similar system to the National Grid of electricity, but that may have been a pipedream of someone's. Sorry if I have misled you! The hydro-electricity and seed potatoes are definitely true! Porridge oats too.

Elegran does Scotland currently provide water to England, I couldn’t see any evidence, and I’d be interested to know?
I know Wales does, 133 billion litres a year are committed in the Welsh Water licence to provide for the needs of Birmingham. The reservoirs are near where I live.

Indeed Elegran.

LauraNorder Seed potatoes grown in Scotland's favourable conditions to start off the spuds in your supermarket are bought south of the border, and (until they became a casualty of the Brexit deal) in the EU. Scottish water from our surplus is pumped into English taps, and Scottish hydro-electric power into the UK grid. Those came into my mind immediately, but I am sure someone can think of others things.

The EU wasn't even an issue in 2014. That referendum was 2 years later.
Alegrias the GDPs of Norway and Denmark is considerably higher than Scotland's. Why isn't Scotland's higher? We've had the same 'government' for 13+ years now. Why hasn't there been a sharp focus on the economy?
By far our biggest market is UK. Daft to put obstacles in the way of that.

Katie59, surely you enjoy lovely wild Scottish salmon or fresh Scottish mussels which we had for lunch today as I couldn't get my usual supply of Anglesey mussels. Shortbread. You certainly cant beat Scottish raspberries and strawberries in the summer months and Aberdeen Angus beef has me slavering.
I'm not Scottish but just saying.

As one who lives in a whisky-producing area, I am delighted that you will still be able to enjoy it, Katie59, whatever happens. Slainte!

The practicalities are going to make life difficult if they do get full independence, border and trade issues are going to be considerable. There could be agreements or some kind of federation although that’s pretty much where we are now, EU membership is not going to happen with UK out.

Personally I don’t care much either way, I expect they will still send us Whisky the only Scottish product I occasionally sample.

Just to be clear, grandetandeJE65, the majority in Scotland for staying in the EU was bigger than the UK majority for leaving, so if one was enough, I don't think you can describe the other as "small"!

What do the populations of those countries do that the population of Scotland can't?

It's what a population does that's important not just the number of them!

A lot of Scots probably still do not want independence, but Brexit has undoubtedly played into the SNP's hands, as Scotland had a small majority in favour of remaining in the EU.

Since the start of the SNP it has been the voice of those in Scotland who feel that Scotland has always had a raw deal since James VI inherited Elizabeth Tudor's throne and that it was made worse by the so-called union of the parliaments in 1707. which was in reality a dissolution of the Scots parliament.

Whether you feel one way or the other about it, Scotland should be able to survive as an independent country if she chooses to go that road, as the population is around 5.46 million.

In comparison Norway has 5,42 and Denmark 5.8 million of population.