Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

Her exact words in Court were it was ‘hypothetical, academic and premature’.

The case was brought to the Courts to see whether the SNP actually have the power to legislate for a referendum vote. The case was brought on behalf of an independence group, ahead of the May election.

Lady Carmichael has ruled ‘no’ today about the SNP’s push for a second referendum on independence. Said it it too soon and speculative.

Do any of you Scottish Grans remember the Rev I M Jolly? Read this in your best Rikki Fulton "Last Call" voice....

Haallo.

Ah'm here to remind you no to get above your staation. Scotland's a wee country on the Northern edge of Europe and ye've got no say at all. Don't think the Ee Yu will have ye back cos they'll no. And even if they did, they'll no give you any siller. And even if they did, they'd tell ye how tae spend it....

Aye, best know your place and jist keep quiet.

[sigh] goodnight....

In any case there is no prospect of membership if the rest of UK is outside.

What makes you think that, Katie? The EU has always said that they'd be happy to accept Scotland as a member.

Why shouldn't they get regional aid? Doesn't it go on need? Not on what has been given in the past...

Jaberwok

But you would under the EU who would certainly have a big say in how Scotland was financially run bearing in mind Scotland would be a financial recipient, and not a contributor as was the case with the UK.

Scotland has been a big recipient of EU regional aid for years so dont count on too much more, there are lots of EU states with lower incomes.
In any case there is no prospect of membership if the rest of UK is outside.

Lithuania is top (bottom?) of the table for EU countries for the proportion of its GDP it receives from the EU. Its 3%. So even if we equalled Lithuania in this, I think we'd cope.

But you would under the EU who would certainly have a big say in how Scotland was financially run bearing in mind Scotland would be a financial recipient, and not a contributor as was the case with the UK.

Grannyrose I see good old colonialism is alive and well in your mind.Democracy surely must be allowed to take its course ? The PEOPLE of Scotland are sovereign NOT any Queen ,or parliament .the say is ours and ours alone ,However many ballots over any number of years it takes.
The WM is merely burying its head in the sand with its denial of a referendum.The more they say NO the more people will flock to the Independence cause .
Independence is NORMAL ,ask any country anywhere in the world if they would prefer a different country with different goals and core beliefs to run theirs ...I think you'll find the answer is no .Why then would the people of Scotland be prepared to live under these constraints?

Norway is closely aligned to the EU and pays for access to various 'bits' of the single market. The two Norwegian ladies we met on holiday early 2016 said they thought is was unsatisfactory as Norway had very little say on EU regulations. They'd have preferred to be a full member.

Norway has sacrificed some sovereignty for the economic advantages the single market brings.

Greenland, independence from Denmark, 1st May, 1979. Joined EU in 1973, withdrew in 1985 over fishing (!!) dispute.

Norway. Independence from Sweden gained in 1905.

Iceland , became an independent republic in 1944.

Things have changed a lot since then, remember?

One of the really important reasons to stay in the UK, we were told, was that it would guarantee us staying in the EU.

Scotland's Remain vote, in the EU referendum, was 62%.

Since the decision to Brexit, the UK government has been seen to have no interest in the effects on Scotland and it is now planning to reduce the powers of Holyrood.

In those circumstances 'You lost' isn't good enough and it's time for a rematch.

paddyanne

Whether we gain Independence or not NO ONE especially not a tory government that we didn't vote for has the right to tell us we're not ALLOWED a vote .As one of only Two signatories to the TREATY of union we should be able to decide for ourselves it WAS a "treaty" we signed ..not a deed of ownership...though sometimes I do wonder what England thought it had signed .

You've had a vote - you lost, remember?

Jaberwok Sat 30-Jan-21 18:36:01

^Surely far better to have total independence like Iceland, Norway or Greenland?

Do these countries have "total independence"?

Me too, Sunny. Could you have a word with the UK Government about that?

In 2014 I would have been very sad if Scotland voted to leave the UK but 6 years later I just feel for God's sake go.

A thought provoking post Lollygran. I’d be very sad if Scotland left the Union but as a Brexiteer, I cannot fault your logic of wanting independence.

I've worked with well-educated Scots (well, to PhD level if that is considered well-educated) and they were very well respected. But then I don't remember many posh accents amongst our colleagues or old school ties either.

I think that, for hundreds of years. the well educated Scot who went down to England. whether he was an engineer. accountants. architect. doctor or scientist was probably underestimated by his posh English colleagues because he spoke with a different accent and would therefore easily outwit them and overtake them in career progression. The English were handicapoed by their heavy reliance on class identifiers like old school and posh accent.

This may now have changed but I'm not sure how much.

"had" not "has", though the tradition of education not being confined to those with plenty of money lasted well.

Yes, Varian, the "lad o' pairts" who has ability and was prepared to work hard at his education, could always make his way in Scotland, and afterwards abroad.

I think that a disproportionate number of Scots have made any impact on the wider world because Scotland had four universities for hundreds of years when England only had two, and there was an egalitarian tradition of education where a farm labourer's son could go to university then venture out into the world and succeed in a way that the sons of the poor in more class ridden English could not.

Of course this has meant that many of the best educated Scots went to England or abroad and made their mark.

Lollypolly ?

I have read through a number of posts and like most things in life there is a fair amount of either misinformation or misunderstandings. I am Scottish have lived in England, Wales,Germany and France. I worked in the oil industry and spent a lot of my time in Africa, middle East and Kazakhstan. I don't consider myself insular and I have supported independence since I was 20 and I am almost 68 now. Independence is the only way for Scotland, that way we can be in charge of our own country. No one to criticise or blame if things go wrong only ourselves, make our own decisions, choose the government we actually want and to be good neighbours to England, Wales. It's not about criticising other countries it's the desire to be in charges of our own country, because that's what Scotland is, a country, not a region belonging to someone else, needing permission or having to ask for additional resources. It's quite simple, nothing to do with politicians because none of them last forever. It's what the people of Scotland decide they want, and I truly hope it's independence and then rejoin the EU at some point in the future. I also think the England should have it's own parliament, be independent and make decisions to suit the people of England.

That report that the DT article is about is the LSE one, that has been criticised for 'made up' data (see my link posted up thread.) The data was 'made up' because no records had been kept... How can anyone take seriously a report based on guess work?

Scottish engineers/inventors have made hugely important contributions to our lives. Many Scots made their way world wide because of lack of opportunity in Scotland. I think they're a very admirable people.

www.famousinventors.org/10-great-scottish-inventors-and-their-inventions

From an article in yesterday’s business section of the DT.

An independent Scotland would face an economic blow up to three times bigger than Brexit and could not reverse the damage by rejoining the EU an academic report has revealed.
The hit to trade alone would slash Scottish income per capita by between 6.3pc and 8.7pc. Equivalent to up to £ 2.800 per person, economists at the LSE warned.

The report estimated that trade costs between Scotland and the rest of the UK could soar by up to 30pc as the SNP ramps up the pressure on Westminster for another independence referendum.