Was it patriotic to clap for Captain Tom?

I found both the view of the curate and Johnson's idea of clapping unpalatable.
Captain Tom was an old school gentleman with the values of his generation which I agree with. I think things have gone a little over the top now and certainly not what the man himself would want.

Whether you clapped or not at the death of someone in the news, what has patriotism got to do with it?

janeainsworth good post.

Janeainsworth:

"I think your thread title is quite misleading Alexa.
It’s not about patriotism or clapping or Captain Tom at all - is about perceptions of racism, homophobia, nationalism, and freedom of speech."

Patriotism is good but needs care not to be distorted into nationalism and other restricted feelings such as racism.

The question to ask is how did one elderly man's fundraising efforts and subsequent death become politically debatable? Because other people's dubious agendas made it so
Exactly, Nell

It wasn't patriotic to clap or unpatriotic not too, just as not clapping for the NHS didn't mean that you weren't just as thankful and supportive of them as those who did.

Alexa

Oh I can understand where that idea came from. It came from the same section of the British people who think if a white British man does something good the reason for his behaviour is that he is a white British male.

What?
If such a "section of the British people" were to exist, their views on this matter would be just as ridiculous as those who appear to think that if a white British man does something bad, the reason for his behaviour is that he is a white British male.
Daft; isn't it?

The question to ask is how did one elderly man's fundraising efforts and subsequent death become politically debatable? Because other people's dubious agendas made it so.

I agree, NellG.

Clapping for CT for the vast majority who did was never about aligning with white British nationalism, it was away of demonstrating their sorrow for the sad passing of a gentle old soul who wanted to do something for others.

The fact that his efforts were hijacked and amplified by both the media and the government (as well as a few other unsavoury groups) is what may have prevented many from clapping, or supporting the call to clap. It may also be what has made many other fundraisers feel rubbished. None of this can be blamed on CT or his motives.

Speaking for myself I find standing on my doorstep clapping for anything to be mawkish and undignified, both for me and the intended cause. I prefer to make my actions count by using my freedoms (the ones CT fought in the war to retain) to vote/donate/campaign and lobby. But that's what is comfortable for me. Others can express themselves differently and as long as they don't hijack the call for their own ends I see no harm.

The question to ask is how did one elderly man's fundraising efforts and subsequent death become politically debatable? Because other people's dubious agendas made it so.

I feel sorry for the curate.
He may have mis-timed his tweet but from (only) reading the article above I feel he has been very unfairly treated.

Totaly agree with M0nica
And as for the clapping brigade....what`s the point ?.
We would be outside all day long clapping for those who do good.
So if that`s the case lets clap for all the shop assistance`s / Bank clerks etc as they have done wonders for the public in these covid testing times.
All for one and one for all as the three musketeers would say.

Thank you for your post, Jane Ainsworth, which puts the rather selective original quote into context.

of course it wasn't patriotic, it was clapping for Cpt Sir Tom moore raising so much for NHS That was the suggested idea well done to him,

I think the trainee Curate is going completely over the top. I did not see this little, very elderly man as a cult leader and am very surprised that he feels the whole walk and collection for the NHS was a founded on "White British Nationalism".

He is allowed his opinion, of course but mine is that he got this very, very wrong and did damage to what he appears to be fighting for.

Alexa

Oh I can understand where that idea came from. It came from the same section of the British people who think if a white British man does something good the reason for his behaviour is that he is a white British male.

Not quite, Alexa

The clapping for different events started many years ago, Possibly in USA

However, the NHS clapping got started by a Dutch national, living in London, Annemarie Plas

Alexa

Oh I can understand where that idea came from. It came from the same section of the British people who think if a white British man does something good the reason for his behaviour is that he is a white British male.

????

B9exchange

I didn't clap because I don't see what it achieves, but it does make me sad that it seems we are not allowed to celebrate anything a white British male does in this Country as this is deemed patriotism. I am not sure why it is deemed so terrible to be patriotic, if that is in the true meaning of loving your Country. We are happy for anyone in any of the devolved nations to love their country, but not if you are English it seems?

I may have got this wrong but aren't you saying exactly what I said I object to. You seem to be defining what it is to be patriotic and expecting others to agree with you. No one person can tell others what they can see as patriotic or we may as well be living in North Korea.

I have to agree with MaizieD and Alexa. If what you mean is the "white British nationalism" or Nativism that has been throwing it's weight around in recent years I most certainly don't call that patriotism - far from it.

Sorry crossed posts with the last few comments.

It’s really a bit more complicated than the OP suggests, if you read the article.

The trainee curate who has caused the controversy actually tweeted
The cult of Captain Tom is a cult of White British Nationalism. I will offer prayers for the repose of his kind and generous soul, but I will not be joining the ‘National Clap’.
‘White British Nationalism’ is not patriotism, and although I didn’t clap myself, I think that to suggest that anyone who did, is aligned with the cult of the BNP and Britain First is quite offensive.
The curate has written a book, Black, Gay, British, Christian, Queer will be published in July, which gives some context to his tweet and the reaction to it.
Despite 400 clergy and lay members of the church defending the curate’s right to freedom of speech, the London Diocese said that Robinson-Brown’s comment was “unacceptable, insensitive and ill judged. The fact that he immediately removed his tweet and subsequently apologised does not undo the hurt he has caused, not least to Captain Tom’s family. Nor do Jarel’s actions justify the racist abuse he is now receiving.”

It’s all in the article.
I think your thread title is quite misleading Alexa.
It’s not about patriotism or clapping or Captain Tom at all - is about perceptions of racism, homophobia, nationalism, and freedom of speech.

I can understand the thought given the way the sacrifices of so many people of colour who gave their lives for Britain is hardly acknowledged, but not the tweeting of his thought which was ill-judged. I wouldn’t have joined the clappers anyway but being asked by the PM to clap for the dear man after he died was what turned it into a farce for me.

I clicked on the link and read the tweet. It was very unpleasant. I’m not surprised it was quickly deleted. Such statements are nothing but divisive in our generally inclusive society.

I feel sorry for that young curate. Any even slightly controversial opinion on Twitter will attract a pile on.

I don't consider 'white British nationalism' to have anything at all to do with 'patriotism'. I think it debases the meaning of patriotism.

B9exchasnge:

Patriotism is not enough. Unfortunately patriotism is sometimes the excuse of white male supremacists for their rowdy acts.

It could have been more patriotic to sing the national anthem? If anyone remembers it? That's what we used to do!!