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Was it patriotic to clap for Captain Tom?

(36 Posts)
Alexa Sun 07-Feb-21 09:35:03

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/07/church-aided-the-pile-on-of-curates-captain-tom-tweet

The young curate has raised the point that Captain Tom was more than a great British man; Captain Tom was an example of what a human being can be.

Alexa Sun 07-Feb-21 09:39:45

[-- can be--] can do

EllanVannin Sun 07-Feb-21 09:43:04

It's a matter of choice, you either clap or you don't, end of story. No need for reasons/ remarks if you do or you don't, but there's always someone out there who has an ulterior motive.

Grandma70s Sun 07-Feb-21 09:44:39

I have much sympathy for the curate’s opinions. I didn’t clap.

RulaNula Sun 07-Feb-21 09:46:22

I agree with EllanVannin

People can clap or not clap

No need to boast or brag about it.

M0nica Sun 07-Feb-21 09:47:56

There were many other people of extreme age or with disabilities, doing much the same as Captain Tom Moore, but the media didn't alight on them and hype it up.

This does not in anyway diminish his achievements, which deserve respect, but the description given by this curate could be applied to many other people like him during the same period of time. They just did not attract the media and popular eye.

EllanVannin Sun 07-Feb-21 09:48:02

I didn't clap either as I find it offensive after someone's died.

Witzend Sun 07-Feb-21 09:52:00

Personally I thought it unnecessary and OTT.
I never thought of it as a matter of patriotism. I really don’t understand where that idea came from.

Alexa Sun 07-Feb-21 09:56:34

Oh I can understand where that idea came from. It came from the same section of the British people who think if a white British man does something good the reason for his behaviour is that he is a white British male.

PippaZ Sun 07-Feb-21 09:56:37

There were many other people doing "much the same" as Captain Tom but they did not have his back story or his personality. He caught the moment and reminded us that we can be decent human beings with a sense of humour.

I don't clap when politicians decide I should. I make up my own mind - nothing to do with being patriotic or not as this was about one man and what he has achieved at the end of a very interesting life. I also wish people would stop telling me what I should think is patriotic and what I shouldn't when it comes to minutiae of what people wear or where they stick their flags or what I think is best for our United Kingdom.

B9exchange Sun 07-Feb-21 09:56:40

I didn't clap because I don't see what it achieves, but it does make me sad that it seems we are not allowed to celebrate anything a white British male does in this Country as this is deemed patriotism. I am not sure why it is deemed so terrible to be patriotic, if that is in the true meaning of loving your Country. We are happy for anyone in any of the devolved nations to love their country, but not if you are English it seems? smile

Gwenisgreat1 Sun 07-Feb-21 09:57:11

It could have been more patriotic to sing the national anthem? If anyone remembers it? That's what we used to do!!

Alexa Sun 07-Feb-21 10:00:12

B9exchasnge:

Patriotism is not enough. Unfortunately patriotism is sometimes the excuse of white male supremacists for their rowdy acts.

MaizieD Sun 07-Feb-21 10:00:31

I don't consider 'white British nationalism' to have anything at all to do with 'patriotism'. I think it debases the meaning of patriotism.

Blossoming Sun 07-Feb-21 10:03:02

I feel sorry for that young curate. Any even slightly controversial opinion on Twitter will attract a pile on.

grandmajet Sun 07-Feb-21 10:04:28

I clicked on the link and read the tweet. It was very unpleasant. I’m not surprised it was quickly deleted. Such statements are nothing but divisive in our generally inclusive society.

Minerva Sun 07-Feb-21 10:18:57

I can understand the thought given the way the sacrifices of so many people of colour who gave their lives for Britain is hardly acknowledged, but not the tweeting of his thought which was ill-judged. I wouldn’t have joined the clappers anyway but being asked by the PM to clap for the dear man after he died was what turned it into a farce for me.

janeainsworth Sun 07-Feb-21 10:21:20

It’s really a bit more complicated than the OP suggests, if you read the article.

The trainee curate who has caused the controversy actually tweeted
The cult of Captain Tom is a cult of White British Nationalism. I will offer prayers for the repose of his kind and generous soul, but I will not be joining the ‘National Clap’.
‘White British Nationalism’ is not patriotism, and although I didn’t clap myself, I think that to suggest that anyone who did, is aligned with the cult of the BNP and Britain First is quite offensive.
The curate has written a book, Black, Gay, British, Christian, Queer will be published in July, which gives some context to his tweet and the reaction to it.
Despite 400 clergy and lay members of the church defending the curate’s right to freedom of speech, the London Diocese said that Robinson-Brown’s comment was “unacceptable, insensitive and ill judged. The fact that he immediately removed his tweet and subsequently apologised does not undo the hurt he has caused, not least to Captain Tom’s family. Nor do Jarel’s actions justify the racist abuse he is now receiving.”

It’s all in the article.
I think your thread title is quite misleading Alexa.
It’s not about patriotism or clapping or Captain Tom at all - is about perceptions of racism, homophobia, nationalism, and freedom of speech.

janeainsworth Sun 07-Feb-21 10:22:49

Sorry crossed posts with the last few comments.

PippaZ Sun 07-Feb-21 10:25:03

B9exchange

I didn't clap because I don't see what it achieves, but it does make me sad that it seems we are not allowed to celebrate anything a white British male does in this Country as this is deemed patriotism. I am not sure why it is deemed so terrible to be patriotic, if that is in the true meaning of loving your Country. We are happy for anyone in any of the devolved nations to love their country, but not if you are English it seems? smile

I may have got this wrong but aren't you saying exactly what I said I object to. You seem to be defining what it is to be patriotic and expecting others to agree with you. No one person can tell others what they can see as patriotic or we may as well be living in North Korea.

I have to agree with MaizieD and Alexa. If what you mean is the "white British nationalism" or Nativism that has been throwing it's weight around in recent years I most certainly don't call that patriotism - far from it.

WW010 Sun 07-Feb-21 10:30:03

Alexa

Oh I can understand where that idea came from. It came from the same section of the British people who think if a white British man does something good the reason for his behaviour is that he is a white British male.

👏👏👏👏

RulaNula Sun 07-Feb-21 10:30:11

Alexa

Oh I can understand where that idea came from. It came from the same section of the British people who think if a white British man does something good the reason for his behaviour is that he is a white British male.

Not quite, Alexa

The clapping for different events started many years ago, Possibly in USA

However, the NHS clapping got started by a Dutch national, living in London, Annemarie Plas

PippaZ Sun 07-Feb-21 10:30:45

I think the trainee Curate is going completely over the top. I did not see this little, very elderly man as a cult leader and am very surprised that he feels the whole walk and collection for the NHS was a founded on "White British Nationalism".

He is allowed his opinion, of course but mine is that he got this very, very wrong and did damage to what he appears to be fighting for.

lemsip Sun 07-Feb-21 10:31:50

of course it wasn't patriotic, it was clapping for Cpt Sir Tom moore raising so much for NHS That was the suggested idea well done to him,

eazybee Sun 07-Feb-21 10:32:59

Thank you for your post, Jane Ainsworth, which puts the rather selective original quote into context.