Does this government see something positive in us having Covid in the country?

It was a Government instruction to return patients to care homes not an NHS decision.

However to be fair to the Governments of all the nations in the UK at the beginning of the first wave of the pandemic there were many, many more unknowns about COVID than there are now, and there was huge concern that the number of admissions would completely overwhelm the NHS, hence the planning and opening of field hospitals, extra capacity etc. moving patients out of the system to creat capacity for new admissions became an absolute priority.

COVID testing before discharge was not available at the beginning, and then only came on stream in very low numbers of tests per day until the pathology testing capacity was available. PPE was also very difficult to find.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and it’s easy now to criticise the decisions that were made in March and April, but I’m not sure that criticism is justified, I think the whole world was blindsided by the speed and ferocity of the pandemic.

I am not supporting the Governments in that I think they have all made some major errors in not going into lockdown sooner, lack of PPE etc etc, but I’m reserving my anger for that rather than thinking there was a hidden agenda to reduce the number of older people in the care system.

As to what they think they can achieve, Pippa, here it is from Johnson's speech to the tory conference in October last year:

Boris Johnson branded people who have called Covid-19 a 'good crisis' a disgrace - despite having himself called it a "massive opportunity".

In October, the PM told activists at the virtual Conservative Party Conference they should use the pandemic to "short circuit" the country and impose a right-wing agenda of tax cuts and reduced support for the unemployed.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-slams-people-calling-23476206

People quoting Lord Falconer should get the quote correct.

Referring to the constant changes in covid legislation he said that covid was a 'gift for lawyers'.

Sorry typo Callistemon. iPad has a mind if it’s own.

Am confused Callistomon, which professor.? June Roberts or June Andrews.?

Who said this as the virus got going?

And in that context, we are starting to hear some bizarre autarkic rhetoric, when barriers are going up, and when there is a risk that new diseases such as coronavirus will trigger a panic and a desire for market segregation that go beyond what is medically rational to the point of doing real and unnecessary economic damage, then at that moment humanity needs some government somewhere that is willing at least to make the case powerfully for freedom of exchange, some country ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion, of the right of the populations of the earth to buy and sell freely among each other.

And then proceeded to miss 5 COBRA meetings about the growing pandemic in order to sort out his personal life...

A year later, with one of the highest covid death tolls in the world, this buccaneering approach looks thoughtless and infantile. It certainly set the tone for what followed, though..

I've no idea.
Even amongst themselves they can't seem to present a a clear and concise front, which they all agree on.
They make irresponsible statements, some flout the rules, they hum and ho about giving any bald statement of facts, and get drawn into speculation about when things will be "normal" again.

I doubt they want to kill people off, but I bet they are glad that the covid 19 scenario is diverting attention from the post-Brexit reality!

It could be that MissAdventure but shouldn't people elected to power be strong enough to say they are not going to do something that will be bad for the country and bad for many of the people in the country?

I am sure they believe they are strong so why not act on the facts?

Isn't it interesting that, while complaining this was an "attack the government post" - it wasn't it was a "please could someone explain" post - it has now become littered with "attack members of the opposition" posts which actually have nothing to do with the quesion in the OP. These posts do not take the subject any further but are just personal attacks.

Stange world.

Pressure from the public?
People clamouring to know when they can go on holiday/see their family (who are having a worse time than anyone else's) the economy..

Who knows?

Quelling covid means more than taking it just below R, though. To ensure it decreases I would have thought it needs to be a least half of R. They have not done this. As soon as they can they open up again knowing, unless they are unable to absorb facts in front of them, that we are back on the rollercoaster again.

Why? They must know by now that each time they have opened themselves up to an open/closed economy which doesn't work in anyone's favour. There must be a reason; so what is it?

lemongrove that Prof June Roberts is a doozie!

Why would they vaccinate the elderly in care homes first if they wanted to get rid of them?
Our vaccination programme is progressing far better than those in other countries.

Of course not.
They need everyone out, about, working and spending.
Hence the push to open everything back up as soon as we may be just about to qwell covid.

In all my years on GN I find this the most bizarre and silly OP I have ever read ( and I’ve read some real doozies!)?
‘Worth killing off a few thousand more’ !!
The short answer is NO.

Who was it who first intimated that Covid might not be a bad thing as it would get rid of elderly, particularly dementia, patients?
Ah yes, Prof June Robert's in March 2020:

A coronavirus pandemic could be “quite useful” in clearing bed blocking in hospitals by killing off patients, a leading former nurse has claimed, while admitting her remarks would be seen as "horrific".

Professor June Andrews said Covid-19 could help hospitals with delayed discharges because these people would be “taken out of the system”.

The former director of the Scottish government’s Centre for Change and Innovation acknowledged the controversial tone of her comments but said they represented the kind of strategic view needed to deal with the circumstances.

When a nurse thinks like this there isn't much hope, is there!

Luckily, those who care for the elderly and dementia patients in care home are more caring and compassionate.

A patient could be tested negative, sent back to the care home, then still develop Covid as has happened in a home I know of. All are locked down and it has ? not spread.

I'm afraid I find Lord Falconer's comment irrelevant. I imagine it would only be relevant to those whose own discussions only support their chosen party and only attack those they don't like or want.

I did not write the OP as an attack on this government. I would be asking the question of whichever government is in power. I have no idea if another party could do better and don't see discussion at the Daily Mail level of knowledge adds anything to it.

It is sad isn't it, that in this country, our choice in politics is reduced to deciding which party is the least incompetent.

That wasn't what I hoped to do MOnica. I want to understand the motivation that makes these people with such power over us act as they do. I'm sure the PM is a chancer - he has such a long record of behaving that way - but would that mean that you would allow outside visits while listening to the fact that Australia has found that even someone opening a door to the passage while in hotel lockdown allowed droplets into the air that infected staff downstairs from the room. Why would you simply not listen? Who is this lax attitude supposed to be for in the population? Or is it just arrogance that it wont happen to us and if it does these are only hotel staff?

It is very, very strange.

Missfoodlove

The NHS sent C19 positive patients back in to care homes.
They then blamed the government.

The NHS was instructed to do so by Hancock in March.

It is sad isn't it, that in this country, our choice in politics is reduced to deciding which party is the least incompetent.

This has nothing to do with the political beliefs and policies of either party. Just the realisation that none of those who want to get their hands on the levers of power could be trusted to organise a p*ss-up in brewery.

None of our politicians seem to inhabit the world that I live in. They have little idea of how those on minimal incomes live.

NZ had done a great job. I know they have a much smaller population but they made the rules and everyone had to toe the line.

As others have already said this government is cold, callous and filled with incompetent nincompoops. Mixed messages and changes of mind causes confusion. The Christmas arrangements were ridiculous and totally against medical advice. They make me spit.

I don’t know if the Labour Party would have made a better job. It certainly wouldn’t have been worse!

I’m absolutely sure that had any other government been in power, they’d have made just a much a mess of it.

I don’t think they are deliberately trying to kill people off. I think that right from the beginning they have acted slowly and hesitantly. I don’t know why, but I think they have. I wish I understood why they’ve been so slow, and so extremely reluctant to close our borders, but I don’t.
On the other hand, I think the vaccine programme has been hugely successful.

The Prime Minster is by nature a chancer, someone who hopes for the best, but never plans for the worst and is surrounded by ministers with similar inclinations..

It is fun getting on one's moral high horse and accusing the government of deliberate malevolence. In a way it would be quite cheering if that were so, because malice aforethought does at least suggest competence and good planning.

Unfortunately all we have is a government whose reaction to everything is to try and get away with a wing and prayer and hope that if everything goes wrong a lot of bluster and more airy fairy promises with enable them to get themselves out of trouble. Look at all the conflicting b*llsh*t we are currently getting on the relaxation of Lockdown and holidays, holidays are on, holidays are off, restrictions remain for the net 2 years, you name it; someone in government has said it.

All the problems wtth COVID arise from rank incompetence at the highest level.

Remind me who said "covid is the gift that keeps on giving". Oh yes, Keir Starmer's friend, Lord Falconer.

This just another anti-government thread - I really don't think the Labour party would have handled things any better, in fact, judging by the local Labour controlled council here it would have been a lot worse.

I think the WM government are incompetent and heartless but I don't think they are wicked. Even this government doesn't have a plan to kill people off to save money.

Isn’t that criminal neglect? Couldn’t they be sued? Someone should.