A Labour government would have made a mess of covid too.

So agree Casdon

What I've never really managed to get a feel for is what are the 'far left' policies which people won't support?

I don't understand how a party which supports a mixed economy can be designated 'far left'.

GrannyGravy13

PippaZ lots of information out there if you care to look.

Do you realise (not just you but everyone who does this) just how ignorant you may be considered to be when you put forward a point with no factual backing. And then expect you expect someone else to do your work for you!

I truly believe there are quite a few on here who have no idea of just how ill-mannered they appear to others on Gransnet.

janeainsworth

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/17/progressive-alliance-defeat-conservatives-election?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

A link to the article Iam64 mentioned.

Thanks Iam64 and janeainsworth. Interesting. Will they go for PR?

If there was any support at all for centre ground politics than surely the Liberal party which has always been part of that would be doing better than it is? What I see happening at the moment is a steady shift to the right. With a Conservative party that has ceased to even think about the old conservative values, which wrong as they were had at least some moral value, and has become simply a party which fills the pockets of those who support it and a LP, that has lost all direction and has no idea what it stands for, with a falling membership.

PippaZ. my post today 12.10.10 gave my source, if you and others disagree I would not dream of stopping you looking for alternative sources.

I have no intention of getting into an argument with you on fora etiquette.

I think centre left is very different to liberal. I think many of those who think of themselves as centre left would look at the Liberal Democrats, as I did briefly, and think this is not my politics.

I am centre left, never considered voting Lib Dem

I don’t see it like that trisher, I think the country is ready for change, and if there was a credible alternative people would flock to vote for them. There’s a lot of dissatisfaction with the current government, and the further right they go the less people will support what they are doing. It’s the same scenario as with Labour to the left. I think there is actually more support for the Lib Dem agenda than you would think, but with a two party system they are squeezed out, particularly in general elections because people think their vote won’t count so they vote tactically.

Unless the party can reconcile the differences, which seems increasingly unlikely, the Left will have to separate away and form their own party, otherwise there is no alternative to the Tories. I don’t believe that will leave a big dent on support, because I think politicians and voters from the other parties will join. I can’t personally see any other option, but would be really interested to hear what others who are Labour by inclination but not to the left of the party think.

GrannyGravy13

*PippaZ*. my post today 12.10.10 gave my source, if you and others disagree I would not dream of stopping you looking for alternative sources.

I have no intention of getting into an argument with you on fora etiquette.

GrannyGravy13 in your first post on this, you did not post comparative statistics, which would be needed to make sense of it. As they say - I don't know what your last slave died of but I'm not volunteering for the post. We do have to back our own "arguements" ourselves if we want to pursuade others and that is simple good manners on or off forums.

Galaxy

I think centre left is very different to liberal. I think many of those who think of themselves as centre left would look at the Liberal Democrats, as I did briefly, and think this is not my politics.

I think the fact that the LDs took the "Democrats" rather than the "Social" bit flagged up they were not going to be a party I could quickly espouse but I did hope they could grow in to it.

Social liberalism is defined as the ideology of collective liberties and rights that favors social welfare and justice and I do think there are many in the centre, on the left and even some on the right who would see that as defining them too. I do think the article is right that in order to rid us of this turbulent party all centre left and left wing parties will have to work together.

Anniebach

I am centre left, never considered voting Lib Dem

Are you sure that you have never voted for a LibDem candidate in a by-election Annie?

PippaZ

GrannyGravy13

PippaZ. my post today 12.10.10 gave my source, if you and others disagree I would not dream of stopping you looking for alternative sources.

I have no intention of getting into an argument with you on fora etiquette.

GrannyGravy13 in your first post on this, you did not post comparative statistics, which would be needed to make sense of it. As they say - I don't know what your last slave died of but I'm not volunteering for the post. We do have to back our own "arguements" ourselves if we want to pursuade others and that is simple good manners on or off forums.

If I see a post that I find questionable I do my own research.

If I see a post that I find questionable I do my own research.

That's nice. If someone is rude to me I try to think they are almost certainly better than they sound

varian yes I did vote Lib Dem , sorry had forgotten, the Libs had a female candidate v a female tory candidate, labour hasn’t won this seat since the 70’s , sorry for my error , it was 2019 and the tory won .

Thinking of it now you have reminded me, how could I forget Long standing Labour Party members canvassing for the Libs, they had left the party because of Corbyn and were certainly not swayed by the media.

Thank you Annie

Thank you for voting for the LibDem candidate Jane Dodds.

The Tory did not win.

Thanks to you and thousands of other voters Jane Dodds won and became a LibDem MP.

PippaZ You are being rude and confrontational trying to intimidate GG13. I, personally, find it tiresome being constantly asked for links. There’s nothing ill mannered and ignorant about someone unwilling to provide links and sources of their information. If it’s so important to you then why shouldn’t you look for them yourself? Many of the links used on here are from The Guardian, presented as gospel. Maybe try discussing instead of point scoring. After all, this isn’t the HOC or Question Time.

PippaZ if I came across as rude, I apologise as that was not my intention.

During my years as a Lib Dem, I refused to be referred to as a Liberal. I was always a Social Democrat - more Shirley Williams than David Owen. The coalition was the last straw and I left the party I had helped to form and served in a number of capacities.
Sorry, Varian!

varian it was such a difficult time here in the Labour Party and I found it stressful, friends in the party canvassing for the
Libs, my personal views on Corbyn , think I blanked it out.

Next election will definitely be Labour, I rejoined the party after Corbyn.

varian just read your reply, I did say It was very stressful for me, yes I voted for Jane Dodds

I can understand that it was very difficult for you Annie after a lifetime as a LP member and activist not to vote Labour because of Corbyn.

I am glad that you now feel more comfortable with Keir Starmer as Labour leader. I also regard him as an improvement on Corbyn and I think it is a pity that so many on the left of the LP seem so reluctant to support him.

I agree with 1Am that this country (England) will never elect a far-left govt. It's traditionally entrenched in landowning rightwing politics. Except in extremely difficult times, eg post WW2 when everyone was in the same boat.
The only way to change would be revolution but we don't care enough.
I don't know what to make of the current LP- so different from when I was an active member in the '70s.

I just didn't see the last Labour manifesto as being what I would call far left. I honestly can't see why people prefer our energy companies to be owned by foreign Governments instead of our own. When Mrs Thatcher privitised there industries I really don't think the current situation is what she had in mind.
I don't see why we can't at least try to increase productivity in order to aim for a four day working week in the next decade.
Has it really worked out so well now that university are run like businesses with the students as consumers.

I just don't see why these ideas were so outlandish, but according to so many on this forum they were.
I might be willing to vote for Keir Starmer's party, but at the moment I have no idea what I would be voting for.