Where are all the Statesmen/Great leaders?

Good summing up Suzie.
I’d like to add Franklin D. Roosevelt to the list. He led America out of the Great Depression & his cooperation with Churchill during WW2 was vital in defeating fascism.
His & Churchill’s vision of a united Europe post-WW2 was the basis of the EU.
They must both be turning in their graves.

One thing a statesman/leader would never do is make a joke that references a murdered woman and her murdered partner. Just when I think Johnson has sunk to the depths, he reminds me how wrong I am and there is further to fall. Yuk

It didnt surprise me at all Suzie.

I really liked Harold Wilson. An old fashioned politician who believed in what he did and was not just out to please voters.

I never really thought of HW as a leader though ( although I know he was). I’ll have a think about that. I agree about the type of politician he was.

suziewoozie

One thing a statesman/leader would never do is make a joke that references a murdered woman and her murdered partner. Just when I think Johnson has sunk to the depths, he reminds me how wrong I am and there is further to fall. Yuk

It's just how he is - unable to present a serious front and always has to give a little off the cuff quote or joke.

Ever the performer.

Boris would have been better as some sort of tv presenter. Witty, amusing and loves himself. Perfect credentials. Not as Prime Minister , though, never as Prime Minister . I think Putin is good for the Russians but he certainly wouldn’t go down well in the West. Many Chinese people love Xi Jinping who has brought them out of poverty but to us he is ,well, eeeugh. Sometimes I think we are too ready to focus on tearing people down for small things which is the fault of social media partly. Perhaps they no longer get the chance to be ‘ great’. They don’t pay enough for that.

nanna8, I think, perhaps, we used to admire and look up to them - when we were young, trusting - and naive. Now we know better.

Even my parents seemed to admire Churchill, although they never voted for him. There's a real need for a 'great leader' in troubled times, so anyone vaguely fitting the description will do.

Right now - no, I can't think of any!

www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/

In the U.K. the only politician who commands statesmanlike respect is Nicola Sturgeon. She has handled herself extremely well during the pandemic and is a born leader. Whether you agree with her politics is another question. I have many friends in England who wish she was leader of the U.K.

Is it a coincidence that the majority of 'statesmen ' mentioned here, are in fact, states women?

Definitely Angela Merkel, she is so dignified whatever the occasion.
I agree with Kim, whatever you think of Boris, and frankly I don’t think much, who would replace him? There is no one .
who stands out.

Calandargirl
I think if Margaret Thatcher was handling the pandemic, we’d be in a whole different place by now.

It’s worth remembering IMO that in the not so distant past, the media (such as they were then) were much more deferential towards anyone seen as important, and so any peccadilloes or dodgy connections would be far less likely to come out publicly, even if they were known about in ‘upper’ circles.

Esspee I'm always in two minds about Nicola Sturgeon. Sometimes she comes across as strong, sensible etc, sometimes as strident and screechy. So I can't agree that she's a born leader. My OH works in Scotland quite often where even her supporters refer to her as 'Wee Jimmy Krankie', so given that level of disrespect I don't think she is the best example of a true leader.

That's says more about those people than it does about Nicola Sturgeon, mainly that that they think the Jimmy Krankie thing is anything other than dull and unoriginal. I think there is quite a lot of misogyny directed at sturgeon, I have concerns about the state of education for example in Scotland but the comments on her appearance and voice are just so tedious.

I’ve recently read a MN thread about NS, where a lot of Scots say they don’t like her at all. As someone put it, she’s a case of Marmite - love her or really dislike her.

Hear hear Galaxy. Nobody will be surprised to see me leap to the defence of NS.

If anyone would be able to post a link of her being strident and screechy I'd like to see it. That's clearly an insult that's used because she is a woman who doesn't know her place. Like Merkel being called mutti because she's not glamorous. Or the Australian reporter who said Ardern needed to be backhanded.

And her supporters don't call her the Krankie thing, only people with no imagination and a misogynistic streak do that. We tend to call her Nicola. Or First Minister, which is what she is after all.

I do wish Boris would stop that damn silly elbow bumping every time he meets a member of the NHS or the public.

Just isn’t necessary, although he must think it makes him more ‘one of us’.

Cannot imagine Margaret Thatcher doing it. I suppose she might have tapped you with her handbag.

?

I think accents have much to do with criticism of party leaders, Nicola Sturgon, Gordon Brown, Neil Kinnock

Not an insult, an observation. I personally don't call her anything other than Nicola Sturgeon. I do find her screechy. Disagreeing with some of you does not make me a misogynist, though if it pleases some of you to think that, feel free, it wont make it true. Equally as it's a personal observation I don't need to prove it by trawling the internet trying to find video evidence so that I can say tomato and you can say tomato. I don't suppose Nicola Sturgeon will give a damn either way, she's clearly happy with who she is.

Perhaps I should have been clearer, the people known to me who do call her WJK support her politics and party, obviously not her as a woman and their misogyny is not my responsibility. The point that I was making, in line with the OP, is that I cannot agree that she is a born leader or stateswoman. People calling her WJK, yet still supporting the party is a reflection of the fact that many don't see her that way - she doesn't have the persona or political acumen to have transcended petty insults and commanded respect.

Merkel has, Ardern has - they may well garner insults, but people are more inclined to side with them over it than join in the sniggering.

I hadnt heard the comments about Ardern, Alegrias, just looked up the incident. I did enjoy reading about the coordinated response to those statements from the 'witches'.

There are insults that are only used against women leaders, often dressed up as "observations". It has been ever thus. The WJK is particularly damaging because it refers to a woman dressed up as a man trying to pass herself off as something she's not, and failing.

Whether the people who use these terms support a politician's politics or not, they are undermining the role of women in politics and I will call them out for it if ever I hear it. Just because someone thinks it funny to use misogynistic insults, doesn't make the person they are talking about a bad leader.

Calendergirl
Yes, I agree, I can’t see Margaret messing about with any of that nonsense.

I’m not Scottish, I don’t agree with her politics, most of my friends look at me in horror, but I quite like Nicola.

I love Janet Godleys take off of NS. Really funny and I think probably what she’s really thinking.

Churchull was never regarded as the great leader he has become since his death. He was hated by the working class. Terms for him included "turncoat" because he changed parties and some that are unrepeatable.
I like Nicola Sturgeon, Jacinda Ardern, Angela Merkel. It's widely believed that Kamala Harris will be running the White House from behind the scenes that will be interesting.