Is the government undermining our democracy? Part 1

I’m tempted just to say yes and so what (as in not enough of us care) It’s so depressing I don’t think I’m up to thinking about it - not atm anyway.

Yes. And I’m tired of it too. That’s the plan isn’t it. We’ll get too tired and disillusioned to bother anymore. Hoping it gets changed in the amendment stage. ?

I would think most normal law abiding people would support the government on this.

So no the government is not undermining our democracy.

I’m sure there’ll be a few changes at the committee stage but fundamentally? Nah. As for voter ID - voter suppression straight out of the Trump playbook ( yes I know you need ID to pick up your parcel at the PO ?)

The idea that a heavier sentence for damaging a statue than s woman seems particularly daft.

I’m a ‘normal law abiding person’. That doesn’t mean I’m complacent about bad laws being passed without proper scrutiny. We shouldn’t forget Mr Johnson has indicated he’s fed up with our independent judiciary. He’d like an American style approach, where the President appoints Judges he knows will support their political views.

I'm sure all those law abiding Jews who obediently boarded trains to be 'relocated' were thrilled when they ended up at places like Auschwitz.

Dinahmo missed out the 'Traveller passports' proposed for Gypsies and Travellers. I wonder if they'll have to wear some sort of distinguishing badge, too. A yellow star, perhaps? Who knows...

Please, people, don't just get depressed. Get angry

That’s a big ask Maizie

As for law abiding, I have such fond memories of apartheid South Africa and segregation laws in the States. Goodness they all knew how to deal with law breakers.

Yes, they are stealthily undermining democracy. I am very angry but feel impotent. Laws have been changed by ordinary people refusing to accept the imposed status quo. The two longest running disputes could be considered as the abolition of slavery that began as early as the 1750s (I think) and votes for women. In the case of slavery the trade was abolished in 1807 but slavery took until 1833 to abolish. It took many campaigns and the payment of huge reparations to the slave owners. Votes for women was finally achieved in 1828 with universal suffrage.

Both of these campaigns were only won because individuals formed mass movements and refused to comply. These people were generally “law abiding” citizens. This is the only way attitudes were changed.

Hitler came to power by using the electoral system to his advantage and we have seen how Trump manipulated the media and his party.

Why do others see this as any different? Iron hand in velvet glove springs to mind

They don't call it the loony left for no reason, reading some of these over the top posts I understand why ?

Just a matter of time before Hitler was mentioned.

I just do not see why we shouldn’t have to have proof of who we are and where we live to vote? Surely then everyone can be assured that the whole electoral system is above suspicion. I also think that postal voting should be overhauled.

Having a Traveller Permit/Passport may help with the illegal campsites which pop up in parks, supermarket car parks and along the sides of rural roads. Hopefully it can lead on to the creation of more legal sites, which can be rented and have relevant council taxes and sewage/water and refuse collections.

Posted to soon.......

Amending the legislation on right to protest this obviously needs rethinking however, the general public has also got the right to journey to their place of employment without protesters gluing themselves to trains. Protesters blocking roads and bridges which not only stop journeys to work but prevent the Emergency Services from carrying out their jobs.

The whole voting system has been working fine for a hundred years, the stats that Dinahmo give in the OP show that. Postal voting is also fine, I think anyone who thinks otherwise has been listening to Donald Trump a bit much.

And I think that the views that GG13 has about Traveller Passports shows exactly how insidious this all is. Will I need a passport to get into my street? Or is it only those who we think are outside of the norms of society who need those?

The most blatant example of the current government trying to undermine democracy for me is that briefing room. Presidents need Briefing Rooms with flags on display, in normal times Prime Ministers have to go before Parliament to make announcements.

GrannyGravy13

I just do not see why we shouldn’t have to have proof of who we are and where we live to vote? Surely then everyone can be assured that the whole electoral system is above suspicion. I also think that postal voting should be overhauled.

Having a Traveller Permit/Passport may help with the illegal campsites which pop up in parks, supermarket car parks and along the sides of rural roads. Hopefully it can lead on to the creation of more legal sites, which can be rented and have relevant council taxes and sewage/water and refuse collections.

There is absolutely no evidence of any meaningful problems with the current voting system.

Firecracker123

Just a matter of time before Hitler was mentioned.

I think you'd have loved Nazi Germany, Firecracker. Everybody sharing exactly the same beliefs and aspirations while any opposition is publicly and violently done away with.

Actually I wouldn't have liked Nazi Germany because my grandmother was Jewish.

I was Presiding Officer at our Polling Station when our District Council was part of the Trial of voter ID recently. There was overwhelming support for this from the voters in our district - even from those temporarily inconvenienced because they had forgotten to bring the necessary means of ID..

Alegrias1

The whole voting system has been working fine for a hundred years, the stats that Dinahmo give in the OP show that. Postal voting is also fine, I think anyone who thinks otherwise has been listening to Donald Trump a bit much.

And I think that the views that GG13 has about Traveller Passports shows exactly how insidious this all is. Will I need a passport to get into my street? Or is it only those who we think are outside of the norms of society who need those?

The most blatant example of the current government trying to undermine democracy for me is that briefing room. Presidents need Briefing Rooms with flags on display, in normal times Prime Ministers have to go before Parliament to make announcements.

What is insidious about creating more Traveller Sites? It is after all what other political parties have been calling for?

Many European Countries and others Worldwide have a system of ID cards, are they abusing their citizens democracy rights?

Sorry folks but resorting to quoting Trump and Hitler in my opinion means that you have no other credible discussion.

Bodach

I was Presiding Officer at our Polling Station when our District Council was part of the Trial of voter ID recently. There was overwhelming support for this from the voters in our district - even from those temporarily inconvenienced because they had forgotten to bring the necessary means of ID..

Why do you think they supported it? Also at district level what was the voter turnout? Was the turnout representative of the voting public?

Its not about temporary inconvenience though, its about voter suppression and the control of the electorate. What about the ones who didn't have any ID, what did they have to do? Identity cards? Slippery slope.

There would be overwhelming public support for many things, but it doesn't make it right.

If we had a national ID system it wouldn’t be an issue but we don’t

GrannyGravy13

Sorry folks but resorting to quoting Trump and Hitler in my opinion means that you have no other credible discussion.

Some of us are having very credible discussions GG13. We don't even mind being called the Loony Left by those with no valid arguments at all.