Flying the flag

MaizieD

^That is perhaps the case, but flag waving is not just for the Tories - it is for everyone who thinks this country has something to shout about.^

I just love the way everyone is completely missing the point.

Though, TBH, with the most corrupt government in my lifetime led by a lying charlatan bent on lining the pockets of his cronies and donors and presiding over the worst covid death rate in Europe caused by his own incompetence, I don't find a good deal to be proud of in my country at the moment.

And perhaps you flag lovers would like to comment on the Tory MP who thinks that people who don't worship the Union Jack should move to another country...

No I haven't missed the point.

The OP asked,

"Does the display of union jacks by politicians making video calls from their homes not just appear ridiculous, but a tad sinister?"

The answer is No and No.

I think if I looked I could probably find pictures of every PM regardless of political affiliation standing or sitting in front of a Union Jack. When they are in government, like it or not, they are representing every person in Great Britain.

Go on then, foxie. Find some.

The thing is, the flag is being used for broadcasting to a domestic audience. Well, blow me down, do you really think that the people in the UK who are being addressed don't know that the government represents all of them?

This is insane.

How many more times do you need to be told that the 80 seat majority does not represent the majority of the voters. The Tories had 43.6% of the popular vote. In my book tht is not a majority.

But it is a win. And you wouldn't be complaining if the vote had gone the other way, would you?

NellG

Maizie It wasn't in reference to your post.

What was it in reference to, then?

That is perhaps the case, but flag waving is not just for the Tories - it is for everyone who thinks this country has something to shout about.

I just love the way everyone is completely missing the point.

Though, TBH, with the most corrupt government in my lifetime led by a lying charlatan bent on lining the pockets of his cronies and donors and presiding over the worst covid death rate in Europe caused by his own incompetence, I don't find a good deal to be proud of in my country at the moment.

And perhaps you flag lovers would like to comment on the Tory MP who thinks that people who don't worship the Union Jack should move to another country...

foxie48

Just to clarify, we've had lots of times when the winning party has had less than 50% of the votes, therefore by some people's opinion, not democratic. In 1974, Wilson had a 4 seat majority but actually got fewer votes than the Conservatives and at 37% of the votes, it meant 63% of those who voted, voted for another party. I didn't stop him governing for another four years. I think if I looked I could probably find pictures of every PM regardless of political affiliation standing or sitting in front of a Union Jack. When they are in government, like it or not, they are representing every person in Great Britain.

Yes, all true ( but not accepted so far on here by the few.)

"It had to do with the fact that there are more voters who don't support the flag waving tories than there are voters who do."

That is perhaps the case, but flag waving is not just for the Tories - it is for everyone who thinks this country has something to shout about.

“Sorry Bodach, I should have read down but yes,as I posted in reply to Pantglas2 - hence left-wing or leftist fascism [Jürgen Habermas and Irving Louis Horowitz].”

Yes Pippa I’d read that definition/opinion and others
simply calling communism nanny state totalitarianism. A rose by any other name...

Maizie It wasn't in reference to your post.

Any answers about the Welsh and Scottish flags and if they are acceptable to you MaizieD ??

Nell the speaking down is usually done when the poster doing it feels rattled.

NellG

GG13 Wow, I didn't realise you were five and had to be spoken down to like that. ?

She does when she is being deliberately obtuse.

My post had nothing whatsoever to do with the 2019 GE. It had to do with the fact that there are more voters who don't support the flag waving tories than there are voters who do.

'We win' was reference to the last resort of Leave voters when they can't tell us how Brexit is benefitting us

At least Pippa 'got' it.

Bodach Sun 21-Mar-21 16:08:34
Having looked at the list myself, I have to agree with Mr Malmer. Stalin's Soviet Union ticked just about all of the boxes...

Sorry Bodach, I should have read down but yes,as I posted in reply to Pantglas2 - hence left-wing or leftist fascism [Jürgen Habermas and Irving Louis Horowitz].

Pantglas2 Sun 21-Mar-21 15:58:28
Could be applied to Russia and China as well...

These days commonly refered to as left-wing or leftist fascism Plantglas.

It’s a good idea to show the Union flag for several reasons,
1. It’s our own flag and high time we saw it more.
2. Now that we have left the EU it’s a time to think about the UK and promote it.
3.After an awful year with Covid, it’s a symbol to rally around.
4. With the SNP badgering for another referendum it’s a message that we have been in union with them for a very long time.

Anyone remember the I’m Backing Britain campaign? It really helped the economy, we could do the same again and buy British as much as possible.

Showing our flag on tv is nothing at all to do with heading towards fascism, but taking a pride in our own country and our union.

Mamardoit
Apologies for the delay in replying to these questions but I’ve been out having fun.
Lillie
vegansrock
I guess a typical “English” celebration would be binge drinking.
Only as portrayed by some press reorts. Not true.
Evidence? I think we are near the top out the league for alcohol consumption

You must be a real bundle of fun in real life vegansrock

Yes I am thanks. Especially when I hit the cocktails. I know this is meant to be an insult but never mind

Do you ever have a joke with anyone?
Yes thank you . Quite a lot especially after a few drinks.

We could skip the pub and have a nice cream tea instead if you want. You could even leave out the cream. I wouldn't mind. - If your idea of a fun time is a cream tea I understand where you are coming from, but you obviously haven’t been out after 9 pm in one of our pre COVID town centres , not much sign of cream tea eating . Getting hammered would be far more common.

To those who disapprove of ministers or the PM in speaking in their official capacity with our own country’s flag in the background... you haven’t answered the question yet as to how you feel about N Surgeon standing next to the Saltire or MD or any Welsh ministers next to the Welsh flag.
So it must be fine in your eyes.
It’s just the English flag or the Union flag that gets your backs up.
Interesting!

PippaZ

I go back to Laurence W Britt's list in his article "Fascism Anyone". He makes 14 points and the first is:

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

Even if you keep it behind the sofa it seems to me that the way they are positioning themselves with the flag falls right into this category.

www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27/076.html

Here's an excerpt from an article by Daniel Malmer (an American researcher) on "The Long, Complicated History of the 14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism",ie Britt's List.

"First, extremists on the far-right and far-left share at least one ideological characteristic: they’re both anti-establishment. People on both the far-right and the far-left have used the list to “prove” that whatever administration was in power was “fascist.” Looking at usage over the years, I’ve seen people use this list to condemn every administration from Reagan’s to the current administration, including Presidents Clinton and Obama."

Having looked at the list myself, I have to agree with Mr Malmer. Stalin's Soviet Union ticked just about all of the boxes...

PippaZ

I go back to Laurence W Britt's list in his article "Fascism Anyone". He makes 14 points and the first is:

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

Even if you keep it behind the sofa it seems to me that the way they are positioning themselves with the flag falls right into this category.

www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27/076.html

Could be applied to Russia and China as well...

"As for thinking its OK to market haggis as a "British" product.....aye, OK! The company is in Glenrothes, BTW, if you want to buy one."
Thanks for the tip, Alegrias1. My east coast Grannie made lovely haggis, cased in the sheep's stomach, and my outer hebrides Grannie's equivalent was Ceann Cropaig: equally delicious (after the initial shock). Nowadays I generally go for the ubiquitous MacSween's - but I'm always on the lookout for something different.

I go back to Laurence W Britt's list in his article "Fascism Anyone". He makes 14 points and the first is:

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism.
From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

Even if you keep it behind the sofa it seems to me that the way they are positioning themselves with the flag falls right into this category.

www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27/076.html

Dinahmo

Can anybody honestly say that they have a full size flag in their sitting room? Somehow I doubt it and I suspect that those politicians (the cabinet in particular) who display a flag have it tucked away behind the sofa to bring out when needed.

Of course they do, Dinahmo! No one is suggesting that they necessarily have the flag there all the time. But when they are appearing on national TV in their official capacity as a member and representative of HM Government, then I would suggest that it's perfectly right that they get it out from behind the sofa...

Pantglas2

“In my book this means that the the left of centre parties had very nearly twice the number of votes cast compared to the Tories.”

What massive leap of faith was made by the liberals in 2010 for them to go from left of centre to joining the right wing in coalition Dinahmo? Perhaps they weren’t as left as everyone thought!

That doesn't make sense. All over the world left and right work together in coalition. This doesn't mean that they change their view of politics only that they believe they can modify any extremes by taking a share of power.

Personally, I think it was very brave as there are very few Tories I would turn my back on let alone try and work with but no doubt they thought it was for the greater good.

GG13 No problem

Thank you Alegrias1 and Dinahmo for your forensic analysis of my posts...

GrannyGravy13

So what part of my post is untrue Pippaz ?

As my policeman said GrannyGravy13 She doesn’t lie deliberately. She is simply sure that whatever she wants to believe is true. In this case you attempted to convince yourself and others of the thing you wanted to be true.

MaizieD sorry to point it out but you didn’t win which is why the UK has a Conservative majority of 80 and it’s no longer in the EU. (GrannyGravy 12:28)

I agree with Alegrias1 that the above post attempts to change the premise of that little discussion that had started and been replied to using people and not electoral systems as it's basis. Your conclusion does not hold true as you have manipulated the original premise the previous posters were using.