Bad language

Oldwoman70, the voice of reason, thankyou.

varian said "Sadly those on the right are less willing to obey the rules"

Judging from the posts in the comments section of the local newspaper (which incidentally is anti-police and supportive of the protest) those taking part have strong left wing beliefs. However, having said that I don't think making such generalisations is helpful.

I am sure there are people from all political beliefs who have concerns about the Bill but violence is never an answer.

Sorry, AmberSpyglass, I googled your carcaral and came up with the definition of caracal (nasty little beggar!). I realise now that you meant carceral. My questions re the "justice" handed out to the injured police officers stand.

The thing is, the police have naff all to do with the justice system we use. Abolish and replace the police and you still have the prisons.

AmberSpyglass - where is your evidence that our Police are predominantly rotten?
I find those kind of comments as ridiculous as the earlier one suggesting branding protesters.
Maggiemaybe, many thanks for posting the police oath. GillT57, my father was a senior officer involved in policing marches/demonstrations in our city after IRA bombs. I do understand your feelings. The fear we could loose our dad on one particular occasion frightened me.

If enough of our citizens feel that the barrel is so rotten that the police need to be abolished, then that’s a discussion that needs to be had. The initiatives in the US re the defunding of police should be part of that discussion, as there are several areas now where the police are dealing with things that should be the remit of other services, and funding needs to be diverted there.

Carcaral justice though? Isn’t that what was meted out to the Bristol police officers with broken limbs and punctured lungs? Isn’t that the sort of justice you thought they thoroughly deserved? What had those individual officers done to deserve a good kicking?

I mean, I very firmly think that the police in their current incarnation need to be abolished and replaced with something more fit for purpose with a focus on restorative rather than carcaral justice.

I can’t sleep well at night under the current circumstances, no. The thing about rotten apples is that sometimes you need to throw out the entire barrel and have a serious think about why so many of your apples are rotting.

Every constable takes the following oath at their passing out ceremony:

I do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.

How do you envisage a country where nobody is prepared to uphold the law of the land, AmberSpyglass? Do you think you’d sleep well at night?

MaggieMay But they’d still enforce the law, wouldn’t they, even if they weren’t in favour of it? They know what they sign up for, and that very much is to be a representative of the state machine.

I never forget it, AGAA4. Being police family and having had people I love have acid thrown in their face and knives swung at them when they are out protecting the public (the jeers and insults barely register), I can’t even watch footage of these events. These are normal human beings with families, not representatives of the state machine.

I haven’t heard one officer yet say they’re in favour of the Police and Crime Bill.

A policeman friend of ours was hurt badly during what were known as the Toxteth riots years ago. From being a healthy 30 year old he became an invalid and died within a year of receiving a blow to the head. He left a wife and a 3 year old son.
This is the side that people forget. Policemen and women risk their lives whenever they have to attend a riotous situation.

I loathe violence as much as anyone on here, and as a child was very disturbed watching the Grosvenor Square riots against the Vietnam War, knowing that my Father, a Metropolitan Policeman was in the thick of it. I was also at my first ever demonstration in London on 24th March 2019, where hundreds of thousands of good natured, non violent, but concerned people marched to ask, politely, for a second referendum. We all know how that turned out. I HATE violence, and I get angry with people who hijack peaceful protest for their own anarchic ends, but, it has to be admitted that it is the noisy, violent demonstrations that get noticed, get people talking, get things done sometimes (Poll tax riots anyone?). As for those of you with your hysterical calls for branding, deportation, imprisonment, get a grip of yourselves, you need to have a lie down

While we are still in the grip of the pandemic, and probably for the foreseeable future, those who want to organise a lawful demonstration must observe social distancing and wear masks.

Sadly those on the right are less willing to obey the rules.

"At least 36 people were arrested at an anti-lockdown protest in central London which saw crowds hurling missiles at police and assaulting officers. Thousands of people joined Saturday's demonstration, which travelled from Hyde Park to St Paul's Cathedral and back to Westminster, ahead of the anniversary of the first UK lockdown which began on March 23 last year."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/21/anti-lockdown-protest-30-arrested-london-rally-turns-violent/

These people are often also believers in conspiracy theories and climate change deniers and have little regard for the rest of the community.

I suppose she thought they should just stand there unprotected and take the violence and abuse.

Sadly, Oldwoman70, a lot of otherwise intelligent people in this country think exactly that. And then when they do, the public shouts about the fact that they just stood and did nothing. Funny old world, isn't it?

Supporters of brexit were far more likely to be on the right, voting for UKIP or the Tories.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

All the more reason then isn’t it varian to crack down on all disruptive demonstrations, regardless of the perpetrators’ political leanings?

Although since you mentioned Brexit, those supporting it came from all political parties.

No wonder there's Covid everywhere with these filthy beasts.
Human faeces contain the virus.

Their acts are medieval aren't they Alegrias ? Stone-throwing, defacating in public ? Treat them accordingly !

I’m supportive of the peaceful protest and disturbed by what the bill is proposing. Of course I don’t support violence but am saddened by the reactionary comments here about branding people etc.

On the other hand a few hundred brexit thugs attacked the police in Parliament Square in Sep 2019 and 16 arrests were made

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/sep/07/pro-brexit-supporters-clash-with-police-at-londons-parliament-square-video

JenniferEccles posts-

"Peaceful, law abiding, calm protests are one thing but as we have seen over the past few years, they always descend into violence".

This is not true. Over a million peaceful protesters marched through London in 2019 and there was no violence, no arrests. Here and there along the route a small number of brexit thugs appeared on the sidelines and shouted insults, trying to be provocative, but they were just laughed at or ignored.

EllanVannin

They should be branded like cattle ! Useless unemployable cretins.

I don’t support violent protest.
EllenVannin - you cant be serious

Oh FGS! We're not in a medieval state! Branded! What next? Amputation and deportation to the colonies?

They should be branded like cattle ! Useless unemployable cretins.

Violent and disruptive protests do nothing to aid a cause. Any protest needs the support of the general public, blocking roads, attacking police, destroying property means loss of public support.

Varian is right, peaceful protest is ignored. The last major demonstration I took part in was Not In my Name. The majori