The govt talks the talk but does it walk the walk?

It's not a lot different to a business borrowing money to buy equipment, materials, stock whatever in order to develop.

Well, it is different because the country doesn't have to 'borrow' anything. It could, if it wanted, just create the money.

What is characterised as 'borrowing' is actually people's savings and investments. People like having a safe place for their money where the return is guaranteed and the institution they are investing in (the country) isn't going to go broke with the loss of all their invested money.

The country doesn't just create all its money because of the need for a safe place for savings and investments..

I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again.

Tens of thousands of Brits have bought houses with the aid of a mortgage. Just think of double entry book-keeping. On the debit side there is an asset - the house and on the credit side, there is a mortgage. Payments are made, over a period of years, to the building society, gradually reducing the mortgage until such time as it is paid off.

It's not a lot different to a business borrowing money to buy equipment, materials, stock whatever in order to develop. Nor is it different to country investing in its people and its infrastructure in order to improve the economy and quality of life of its people.

We really should not be heading for yet another period of austerity. As for the deficit, I and many others have repeatedly explained that the deficit has gone up and down ever since the B of E started lending money to help Churchill's wars (Duke of Marlborough in case anyone thinks I'm confused) and no doubt will continue to do so.

Thanks Gill ? it was a minor irritation, kind of you to apologise.

I was unaware that I started my references to your comments in any particular way lemon, but if it offends or irritates you, I apologise.

The 2008 crash was just recovering nicely in 2016 that’s 8 yrs before Brexit created another problem

The economy was actually reovering nicely by 2010. Then the tories took over and imposed their dreadful austerity regime and stopped the recovery dead in its tracks.

There are huge differences between a household and a national economy. The greatest, and key, difference being that a household cannot create its own money whereas a government with a sovereign currency can. If a government withholds money from the economy by cutting spending it immediately cuts growth.

“I wondered how long it would be before somebody claimed that a national economy is no different from a household budget and it will take decades to recover and austerity will be needed blah blah blah ...

People who believe that really should get themselves an education ...”

It can be much easier to balance a household budget and it IS national economies that take much longer because there are always political reasons why “austerity” has to be limited.

The 2008 crash was just recovering nicely in 2016 that’s 8 yrs before Brexit created another problem.

I wondered how long it would be before somebody claimed that a national economy is no different from a household budget and it will take decades to recover and austerity will be needed blah blah blah ...

People who believe that really should get themselves an education ...

It seems that in some cases you really can't teach an old dog new tricks, growstuff.

lemongrove

growstuff I well remember your ‘nuanced’ thoughts about Cummings on any thread about him the other year. No poster now lauding him ( or at the least believing his every utterance) had a single good word for him back then.That’s what makes it funny.

Really? Do you have a link?

If Cummings had at the time stated that the earth was round I would have said he was accurate about that whilst pointing out his behaviour around Barnard Castle was not acceptable. It's not a difficult concept to think he may have information about Johnsons behaviour, it would be odd if he didnt. There appears to now be other witnesses who are also stating this.

growstuff I well remember your ‘nuanced’ thoughts about Cummings on any thread about him the other year. No poster now lauding him ( or at the least believing his every utterance) had a single good word for him back then.That’s what makes it funny.

Galaxy

I imagine it's because people can hold two conflicting thoughts in their head at once.

....and yet they couldn’t before Cummings was sacked!?

Didn't you ever study history or literature at school?

lemongrove

It amazes me, and makes me laugh too, that good things are now being attributed to Cummings, when so many on here had him down as the devil incarnate not so very long ago.

Why? Some of us are capable of nuanced judgments. It amazes me that people only seem capable of binary thinking.

I imagine it's because people can hold two conflicting thoughts in their head at once.

It amazes me, and makes me laugh too, that good things are now being attributed to Cummings, when so many on here had him down as the devil incarnate not so very long ago.

Gill are you able to start any post to me without the preface ‘nice try’ or ‘brave try’ it really is becoming boring.
It smacks of ‘ you don’t belong in our cosy thread.’
My comments are no more ‘tries’ than anyone elses are, they are simply comments.
I don’t know if Covid has been used to cover up any wrongdoing and prefer to see some evidence of this actually happening.If you merely mean that Covid has complicated absolutely everything, then yes, it has.

Being a rat would apparently make him a convenient scapegoat too. Presumably that's why Johnson tried to blame him for the leaks. He gambled on people believing him rather than Cummings.

Katie59

Cummings is a real rat for sure, with his advice the Tories made a real mess of 2020. Since he left at least they have been making sensible logical decisions, they are not going to please everybody. Recovery is going to be a long hard slog, Brexit is a fact of life now, we can only hope a third Covid peak is avoided.

Actually, Cummings wanted to make some good decisions. He wanted an earlier lockdown and more genuine support for the north, but was overruled. Those were matters of public record at the time.

lemongrove

I refer you to MaizieD and her comment above.I expect a further comment on how we should just print money to cover it, how it’s not a household budget blah blah any time soon.
Covid has put any negative effect from Brexit in the shade economically speaking and will take years and years for us to recover. Councillors will always want money for their own areas but it’s a bit early for them to give any government ‘bad marks’.

I wondered how long it would be before somebody claimed that a national economy is no different from a household budget and it will take decades to recover and austerity will be needed blah blah blah ...

People who believe that really should get themselves an education ...

What actually happens is hardly oddball. I mentioned on another thread that Andy Haldane is leaving the Bank of England, which is a real shame. As one of the country's smartest economics, he understands reality.

Cummings is a real rat for sure, with his advice the Tories made a real mess of 2020. Since he left at least they have been making sensible logical decisions, they are not going to please everybody. Recovery is going to be a long hard slog, Brexit is a fact of life now, we can only hope a third Covid peak is avoided.

PippaZ why so condescending? I’m a Labour supporter, but I don’t see things as black and white as you do, that doesn’t mean my view isn’t as valid or that I support the government. I believe that without a proper investigation revealing what the facts of the situation actually are, all does is to entrench the position of both sides of the spectrum and alienate everybody who has a different perspective - what’s the point in that?

I don’t know whether you know much about what’s happening in Wales, but the Labour government here has been in place for 22 years, so it’s the same ‘tired’ argument being promulgated by the Tories here. What are we saying, that the power balance should change regularly to keep them sharp?

I’m Welsh and happy living here Casdon but not blind to the faults of government and happy to call out poor governance whether Labour or Tory -the privilege of being unbiased!

And where do you start, Pippa, with a Labour administration in Wales for decades (under Westminster Labour/Tory&Lib/Tory) which has blamed the man in the moon and his wife for the 3 year waiting lists (pre COVID) in Wales?

Interestingly, the Tory councillors did not think it too early to give the Government "bad marks" on the fulfilment of the levelling up promise. They did so with a bigger majority than the 2016 referendum which we have had to accept that with no caveats. Now the excuses flow from the Tories on here.

Yes I agree that waiting lists at Betsi Cadwaladr have been an issue Pantglas2, but there have been huge scandals in England as well (mid Staffordshire, and Winterbourne View spring to mind immediately). I’m not defending areas of poor performance or the part governments play in that.

However, I’d still far rather live in Wales for overall quality of life, and I’m pleased to see that England are now belatedly adopting many of the integrated working practices in the community for health and social care that we do here, which enable people to live in their own homes for longer.