David Lammy on LBC

I only found out fairly recently that the indigenous inhabitants of the Caribbean were similar to native Americans. All wiped out by slavers and the sugar cane industry.

AmberSpyglass

“We used to be German and now we’re Italian/the borders keep shifting around.”

- Chess

The same was true of people in Alsace and Lorraine (they kept changing from French to German and vice versa).

EllanVannin

Everyone's a Heinz 57 whether you like it or not.
No aristocratchits here.

Actually EllanVannin Did you know that a significant group of people on the Wirral have Viking ancestry via Viking invaders from Ireland?

“We used to be German and now we’re Italian/the borders keep shifting around.”

- Chess

So ... can anybody claim Basque ancestry? It could be that you're a true Brit!

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/mythsofbritishancestry

Everyone's a Heinz 57 whether you like it or not.
No aristocratchits here.

Or, as David Lammy himself mentioned, white Barbadians whether they're West Indians.

Because, believe it or not, social workers who deal with adoptions feel that an adoptive child should have parents who are ethnically and culturally as close to the child's ethnicity/culture as possible.

Whitewavemark2

What I am arguing is that you can’t possibly be born with a cultural identity.

Say for example a young woman whose entire ancestry as far as she knows originated in the UK gives birth and the child is immediately adopted and raised by a person whose entire ancestry originated in Zimbabwe. What would that child’s cultural identity be?

Interesting question. Try asking white Zimbabweans or Afrikaaners in the Transvaal whether they're African.

Chestnut

^So for all your pride in your 'English DNA', it isn't actually English at all.^
Stop accusing me of 'pride'. I never said I was proud of anything, I am simply stating facts. German and English DNA are identified separately by Ancestry DNA.

Well, unfortunately then, that is not a point in the favour of Ancestry. Because English DNA comes from Danish and German.

They are probably tracking more recent German DNA as opposed to Danish/German anglo saxon DNA.

Splitting hairs really. It is all German/Danish anyway. Just like the English language originates from German.

But it isn’t the point, I am asking the question about whether you are born with a cultural identity.

Loislovesstewie

Whitewavemark2

What I am arguing is that you can’t possibly be born with a cultural identity.

Say for example a young woman whose entire ancestry as far as she knows originated in the UK gives birth and the child is immediately adopted and raised by a person whose entire ancestry originated in Zimbabwe. What would that child’s cultural identity be?

I don't think that is l.likely to happen is it?

Why not?

David Lammy is the chorister in Peterborough Cathedral on the far left. That looks quintessentially English to me.

Whitewavemark2

What I am arguing is that you can’t possibly be born with a cultural identity.

Say for example a young woman whose entire ancestry as far as she knows originated in the UK gives birth and the child is immediately adopted and raised by a person whose entire ancestry originated in Zimbabwe. What would that child’s cultural identity be?

I don't think that is l.likely to happen is it?

Agreed growstuff.

What I am arguing is that you can’t possibly be born with a cultural identity.

Say for example a young woman whose entire ancestry as far as she knows originated in the UK gives birth and the child is immediately adopted and raised by a person whose entire ancestry originated in Zimbabwe. What would that child’s cultural identity be?

So for all your pride in your 'English DNA', it isn't actually English at all.
Stop accusing me of 'pride'. I never said I was proud of anything, I am simply stating facts. German and English DNA are identified separately by Ancestry DNA.

Alegrias1

I think it all comes down to whether you think English is a nationality. I do. Becuase if English isn't a nationality then nether is Scottish, or Welsh. Which is what my rather clumsy posts up thread are about.

Many of us are currently British but if I had been born 300 years ago I would have been Scottish. DH would have been English (despite his German ancestors). So "British" is a construct of the political environment pertaining to today and can easily be rolled back.

All national borders are political constructs and can be rolled back. Ask anybody in post-colonial Africa or the Indian subcontinent.

Check mate, growstuff!

Whitewavemark2

So you are saying that a cultural identity is something you are born with?

So why on earth can't David Lammy be English if that's what he feels he is?

I was born with an Irish name, I am not Irish nor have I ever been to Ireland. I suppose people like Jean think I can never be English though but I imagine she has exceptions for white people

I think it all comes down to whether you think English is a nationality. I do. Becuase if English isn't a nationality then nether is Scottish, or Welsh. Which is what my rather clumsy posts up thread are about.

Many of us are currently British but if I had been born 300 years ago I would have been Scottish. DH would have been English (despite his German ancestors). So "British" is a construct of the political environment pertaining to today and can easily be rolled back.

Chestnut

GagaJo

OK Chestnut, you crack on being proud of being German and Danish. Have you been to German or Denmark?

I am not German or Danish and I didn't I say I was proud of anything. Ancestry shows English DNA for me. My daughter on the other hand shows a small percentage of German (from her father). So English and German DNA are not the same, and can be identified as different. So calling an English person German or Danish is a strange thing to do.
Ancestry DNA analysis is based on millions of DNA samples and it is being tweaked all the time as the incoming data enables them to be more and more accurate.

As I have now said FOUR times, Chestnut, is that anglo saxons came to the UK from Denmark and Germany. So if you have English DNA, it is actually Danish and German DNA. Not English at all.

So for all your pride in your 'English DNA', it isn't actually English at all.

I'd say for sure DH's family are Romany by culture. And as I said I don't feel I am English.

BTW passports don't say 'English' on them, do they?