How do we stop boys who become drunk being labelled as sex predators?

I'm actually finding this chat exhausting.

Why is it not sufficient to know that saying "no", or being passed out, or in a state of in-and-out of consciousness, or having to be coerced... means NO?

We should not allow abuse to be called anything else.

Just to counter the anecdotal, as 8 am sure everyone is bored of me stating, 97% of violent sexual assault is committed by males.

oh pardon me. Summerlove. I would have thought my comment encompassed every aspect... for goodness sake

I agree that females are much less capable of committing rape on men. Female on female rape is becoming more common.

In regard to it being “many, many more times likely that a boy will assault a girl” it depends on what is regard as an assault. I know, as I said earlier, that it’s a teenage “laugh” for a girl to touch the penis area to see if the boy ‘fancies” her. Often this is preceded by deliberate body contact, brushing against the boy or pressing against him. So I dispute that it is many, many times more common.

Female initiated sexual advance is taken less seriously. As if the boy will always want it.

trisher

I don't think that most boys are rapists and I think we should try not to confuse the issues. These girls feel they have been abused, perhaps they have, but we only have one side of the story. It is well known that witnesses give widely different accounts of any incident they witness, are we saying these encounters are different and only one side of a story is to be considered?

More victim blaming.

I expected more from you

lemsip

uh, stop them getting drunk!.......of course I mean to teach them about the effects of alcohol . Also we don't teach our children the full set of manners from the start.....It's not about the 'say thank-you and please' phrase. What about self respect and respect to others.... conducting themselves in a proper manner where ever they are.
Teach them about the law also.

Stop getting drunk
Teach them about the law

How about just teaching them not to be rapists?

A girl she could touch a boy up she has no relationship with whilst drunk “for a laugh” or whatever, which would be assault, but if they were boy/ girlfriend presumably she could initiate sex, which then might be turned down for whatever reason - it’s all in the context. However, it is many, many more times likely that a boy will assault a girl than the other way round - females are much less capable of committing rape than males.

The tea video describes one person being unconscious and presumably under the influence of something what if the tea maker is also under the influence?

When I was a teenager we all took care not to get into dodgy situations with boys, particularly ones we didn't know. We never travelled in less than pairs and we warned each other about any undesirables we had come across. Of course we were helped by the fact that none of us could afford more than a couple of drinks, there were no drugs and people took a lot more notice of the age of consent. I was dropped by several boys when they realised I was under 16.

I don't think that most boys are rapists and I think we should try not to confuse the issues. These girls feel they have been abused, perhaps they have, but we only have one side of the story. It is well known that witnesses give widely different accounts of any incident they witness, are we saying these encounters are different and only one side of a story is to be considered?

AmberSpyglass

How about we teach them to stop being sex predators? That should do it.

Well said!

I’m a mother of boys and my mother was shocked at the advice I offered my sons, “ unless she takes her knickers off herself, treat it as if she said No”
My boys all have sons of their own now and I understand that they gave them the same advice.
I wish our young people didn’t drink so much, it’s just so readily available. Being drunk is not an acceptable excuse.

I find the concept that boys who are drunk or drugged enough to lower inhibitions somehow can't help themselves WRONG at every level. Children should be taught early on about the concept of consent, not just in a sexual context.
'Tea and Consent' is a clever illustration www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

uh, stop them getting drunk!.......of course I mean to teach them about the effects of alcohol . Also we don't teach our children the full set of manners from the start.....It's not about the 'say thank-you and please' phrase. What about self respect and respect to others.... conducting themselves in a proper manner where ever they are.
Teach them about the law also.

Actually, trisher (16.28 post), that shines an entirely different light.

The rate of conviction of rape, more or less worldwide (other than Scandanavia) is shocking. A clear indication that women aren't valued and that male violence towards women is acceptable.

Of course, the legal system needs a huge overhaul in most countries. Nearly all of the boys described on the 'everyone's invited' site are sexual predators and SHOULD face the legal consequences. But in a patriarchal system, they don't. Example is the presence of Brett Kavanaugh on the supreme court in the US.

The problem is that there is no minimum drinking age, so nobody bothers to try and stop them, unless the police do because of public disorder.

Peasblossom

Well now. A step further. Some posters have said that assault on males happens if he says no after a sexual advance.

If it’s not assault until he says no, does that apply to men putting a hand on a woman’s private parts, as long as he stops when she says no.

If not, why is it different?

And Monica would you say that being drunk is also no excuse for a girl who initiates sexual contact?

I suppose my comment was based on the idea that the first encounter was consensual, then the man stopped it.

If it wasn’t from the start, then the aggressor was assaulting

Clear as mud?

Sorry but this sounds like victim blaming to me. Boys having sex without consent are abusing and raping those girls. No excuses.

So many boys grow up with a sense of entitlement & think they can do what they like. Many are defended by their soft, ineffective parents. It’s disgusting.

The stories on the "everyone's invited" website are shocking and some of them don't involve alcohol. I was specifically interested in the ones which do. I did drink in my twenties not as heavily as young people seem to now and not in my early teens and with friends and we did things totally out of character- mostly minor stuff like taking litter bins and picking flowers from gardens, moving orange cones etc. It isn't excusing behaviour to ask about a problem it's seeking to understand and work towards how it can be resolved. Of course boys should stop, but evidently many of them don't. Is it then enough to say "Oh they are predators" and imagine that that solves the problem? Are we going to prosecute huge numbers of teenage boys? I doubt it. So what is the answer? Because if all you have to say is "It's the boys fault" then I think you are actually saying girls are just going to have to put up with it.

I agree with your last paragraph MOnica equality all the way.

As someone up thread said there is a culture now of young people drinking to excess whenever they go out, this needs to change somehow. I hope when everyone is able to go out again to pubs and clubs there is not a resurgence.

* Peasblossom* not if she initiates it. Sauce for the gander should be sauce for the goose.

Girls and boys, men and women need to equally understand that getting drunk puts you at risk and is and should be an aggravating factor for any crime committed.

I’ve had consensual sex while drunk/tipsy, including with people I might not have slept with while sober. I’ve also been sexually assaulted when I was too drunk to easily fight the man (I thought was a friend) off.

They were entirely different experiences. We can tell the difference even if men can’t.

I think females should be responsible and not get so drunk that they "pass in and out of consciousness"
I brought my Sons up to be responsible and explained in great detail exactly why they should never get themselves in that situation.
I remember one occasion when my son and his Gf went to a party and she got incredibly drunk, he phoned me at about 1 am and asked me to come and get them. I did go and pick them up and when I saw how drunk she was I drove her home to her mums, I wouldn't allow her to stay and told them why, he got it but she kept saying my mum will kill me. I don't drink, I haven't since my first pregnancy. I believe no one should ever be legless and not know what's going on and that we should all take responsibility for our own actions.

Well now. A step further. Some posters have said that assault on males happens if he says no after a sexual advance.

If it’s not assault until he says no, does that apply to men putting a hand on a woman’s private parts, as long as he stops when she says no.

If not, why is it different?

And Monica would you say that being drunk is also no excuse for a girl who initiates sexual contact?

I’m ashamed to admit I have committed a couple of “indiscretions” , when drunk. No way was it forced on me . Alcohol has a lot to answer for .
It’s a really tricky area I think. Undoubtedly education both at school and at home is good but whether those young people remember that education when they’ve had a few....