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How do we stop boys who become drunk being labelled as sex predators?

(272 Posts)
trisher Wed 31-Mar-21 11:16:28

I've been reading some of the posts on the everyone's invited website. The stories are shocking and disturbing, but one thing I found really worrying is how many of the incidents happen when a girl is drunk. These are often quite young girls -14 upwards. They seem to reach a state when they are passing in and out of consciousness and are then sexually assaulted by a boy. I know the boy shouldn't do it, but given that he is probably equally as drunk, and drink lowers inhibitions, is it then fair to label him a sexual predator? He might know and be very concious of the way to treat girls when he is sober, but alcohol affects everyone. It's something that worries me for both the girls and boys involved.

Dinahmo Wed 31-Mar-21 11:31:45

In the past, in my early twenties, I occasionally got drunk. In fact, when I passed my first professional exams, we went to the local pub at 11.30 and stayed until chucking out time at 3.30. Having gone back to the office, bottles of veuve du vernay appeared and we continue drinking until the office closed at 5.00pm. You can probably imagine how drunk I was. In order to get home I had to walk a short distance to The Embankment where I could catch a bus all the way home. I was so pissed that I that I got off the bus at Kennington - couldn't cope with the movement - and telephoned my OH to come and pick me up.

I wasn't ashamed of myself and I didn't do it again. But at no time did I ever lose sight of what was right and wrong. I might not have been able to defend myself against a predator but that's not the point here.

You mention that the girls were passing in and out of conciousness but the boys were probably equally as drunk. if that was the case, why weren't they passing in and out of consciousness?

It seems as though boys still think it's OK to touch girls, look up their skirts, even take photos from below if they're walking up stairs.

So, my answer is, yes, they are sexual predators. I bet the boys involved weren't 14.

Pantglas2 Wed 31-Mar-21 11:35:33

I don’t like the drink/drugs excuse being used for any bad behaviour.

grandtanteJE65 Wed 31-Mar-21 11:54:57

Here in Denmark, the law has been changed.

Anyone engaging in casual sex is responsible for asking directly whether the proposed partner consents or not.

It is now considered rape, if you were unable to obtain clear verbal consent from someone who was too drunk to know what they were doing.

To my mind this is a dodgy piece of legistration, because obviously if someone is too drunk to know what he or she is being asked, the other person can later claim that the person did in fact consent.

We need to teach all age groups and both sexes that drinking to the extent of not knowing what you are doing, saying, or being asked, is stupid and potentially dangerous.

In the 1970s girls and young women did drink and sometimes we drank too much, but we stopped before we got to the point where we were incapable.

Protect the young of both sexes by teaching them to drink responsibly!

Anniebach Wed 31-Mar-21 12:08:31

Good post trisher

MaizieD Wed 31-Mar-21 12:14:54

I'd always understood that drunkenness affected male 'performance'. Is this not the case?

If he's as drunk as the girl, as you describe it trisher the likelihood is that he can't do much anyway. If he is less drunk then he is taking advantage and has absolutely no excuse (not that I think that 'being as drunk as her' is an excuse, anyway)

Calendargirl Wed 31-Mar-21 12:15:34

I was going out to dances and discos late 60’s/early 70’s. I must have been so innocent, would probably have a Babycham or similar, can remember one lad buying me a rum and coke, which seemed very daring.

I can recall one girl in particular, she was at primary school with me, and she would soon be drunk and wobbling about, but she was a minority. Honestly don’t think most of the girls I knew back then drank to excess like they do now. My own DD and DIL have a completely different attitude to drinking than me.

It worries me for my own GD’s, whenever I hear a girl has been raped or worse murdered when too drunk to know what was going on.

You need to take some responsibility for yourself.

trisher Wed 31-Mar-21 12:24:28

MaizieD from what I can gather (and I didn't read all the posts I found it deeply worrying) this isn't actual rape it's often sexual contact in other ways.(using hands for example) The concept being I suppose that the urge remains if not the ability.

trisher Wed 31-Mar-21 12:27:36

Dinahmo You mention that the girls were passing in and out of conciousness but the boys were probably equally as drunk. if that was the case, why weren't they passing in and out of consciousness?
Perhaps they were. There are no posts from boys about this so who knows?

NotSpaghetti Wed 31-Mar-21 12:28:02

Anyone who has worked with girls or women who have been raped (or men/boys I expect) will not accept the "he was drunk too" as an "excuse".

If someone has taken advantage of another, this is abuse.

trisher Wed 31-Mar-21 12:34:07

NotSpaghetti It isn't necessarily rape. It's sometimes what would have been called in my day "heavy petting". In my experience girls are sometimes coerced into this, but they have sexual drives as well, so fuelled by drink they may have instigated sexual contact. If the drunken boy carries on is it really assault? I know actual sexual intercourse with someone who is unconcious is rape but when does contact become assault?

Doodledog Wed 31-Mar-21 12:50:00

I think that alcohol can make people do things that they wouldn't do when sober, and it's perfectly possible that when the young people wake up they regret what happened, and maybe that, coupled with a hazy memory of events could lead to a belief that things happened that maybe didn't, or that happened differently from how they are remembered.

Of course that doesn't mean that anyone should be coerced into doing anything they don't want to, or that they wouldn't do when sober, but it must be very difficult for adults dealing with the aftermath.

Today's Guardian has a report about the difficulties faced by Head Teachers

AmberSpyglass Wed 31-Mar-21 12:50:38

How about we teach them to stop being sex predators? That should do it.

Dinahmo Wed 31-Mar-21 12:55:17

If the girl isn't in a position to consent or otherwise? Or if she does object, her objection is ignored. Either way, it's sexual assault and there's too much of it these days.

In my day, as a teenager, heavy petting was above the waist and certainly no one was drunk. Funnily enough, I didn't start drinking much at all until I started my training as an accountant. Then we went to the pub most lunchtimes.

The first time I had a drink, outside of my parents' home was when a school friend was staying and we'd gone to the cinema and afterwards to a pub where we each had a half pint of cider. And it wasn't the strong stuff. We both giggled all the way home and crept into the house hoping that my parent's didn't notice. I was in the Upper 6th then, so quite old.

Dinahmo Wed 31-Mar-21 12:56:44

Looking at the above responses I'm interested to know who has sons and who has daughters because there seems to be a bit of excusing going on for the boys.

Doodledog Wed 31-Mar-21 12:58:12


How about we teach them to stop being sex predators? That should do it.

Agreed. But the question isn't about that, it's about how to sort out a situation in which neither party has a clear recollection of events, and could be complicated by peer pressure to say that things happened or did not.

I don't think it is always clear cut, and I wouldn't want to be responsible for deciding what is a fair way to deal with a situation such as the ones in the article I linked to.

Katie59 Wed 31-Mar-21 13:08:51

You can educate as much as you like, unless you back it up with discipline and penalties the children will do whatever they can get away with.
No one is prepared to apply the discipline or penalties so nothing will happen.

Doodledog Wed 31-Mar-21 13:15:19


Looking at the above responses I'm interested to know who has sons and who has daughters because there seems to be a bit of excusing going on for the boys.

I'm not excusing anyone, and I have a daughter and a son. I am aware, however (maybe as my teenage years were less protected than yours), that young teenagers, both male and female, can get carried away, particularly when inexperienced about sex, and that alcohol muddies the waters enormously.

I think that assumptions such as yours are unhelpful too. Nobody, as far as I can see, is excusing rape or coercion in any way, but a drunken fumble can quickly lead to things going further than expected, and denying that, or assuming that anyone who recognises it is 'excusing boys' only makes matters worse. Girls have sexual impulses too, and not all boys are predators - both sexes have to learn the signals and etiquette involved, and from what I hear from younger friends many adults struggle to get it right.

I think that at least part of the answer is to educate young people about the effects of alcohol, but I appreciate that this is easier said than done. It is only when someone has experienced being on the wrong side of a few glasses of wine (or young person's drink of choice) that they can understand the impact that it can have. If you are lucky enough to have this happen in a protected environment, you are far better prepared than if it happens somewhere with other unsupervised young people who are equally the worse for wear.

Sarnia Wed 31-Mar-21 13:17:16

When my grand-daughters were old enough to get themselves to and from places with their friends they were told to use registered taxis rather than mini-cabs. They then had to ring home from the taxi, giving details of the local authority licence plate and say where they were, the route they were going and when they expected to be home. Any time they either forgot or couldn't be bothered, then the next outing would have them chauffeured by one of their parents, which they hated. Dented their street cred no end.

suziewoozie Wed 31-Mar-21 13:27:07

Drunken teenage boy steals car, crashes into another car containing mother and children who are all killed. Never mind, he was drunk, not in a fit state to ask for permission to drive car. Never mind, he’ s a nice boy really, gets a bit daft when he’s drunk, didn’t mean any harm, he’s really sorry now .........

eazybee Wed 31-Mar-21 13:38:21

What about the parents? Shouldn't they be taking responsibility?
I had to collect my 14 year old daughter from her schoolfriend's birthday party, because the girl's father had arrived with several young men and tipped a bottle of brandy into the homemade punch. My daughter was terrified, and wouldn't even wait in the house; she waited outside, and I could hear the shouting and drunken behaviour when I arrived.

Blossoming Wed 31-Mar-21 13:38:48

Some of them are sex predators.

Galaxy Wed 31-Mar-21 13:38:58

If those girls were drunk on their own then no assault would be committed. I have 2 sons if that helps anyone.

Galaxy Wed 31-Mar-21 13:39:51

Parents cant be with teenagers 24/7, that kind of parenting causes it's own damage.

Namsnanny Wed 31-Mar-21 13:48:29

I think the culture we live in leaves a lot to be desired.
Teens are surrounded by ads encouraging drinking. Drugs are considered a rite if passage for the young.
There is some much porn available, giving an ambiguous view to say the least.