The Govenment report on Race and Ethnic Disparities is being called into question on a daily (or more) basis.

Katie59

“Eh? What's that about? Most black children currently in the UK were born here ... in some cases they're second or third generation.”

I guess 90% plus are born in the UK, the families with direct African heritage have different cultural values, very often middle class in their homeland. The family connections within the UK and overseas is quite strong

I'm afraid I'm still unclear what point you're making.

Having visited 6 African countries the women there go to great lengths to educate their children, although usually primary schools are free, secondary education has to be paid for, and it is a pleasure to see legions of children walking to school in immaculately turned out uniforms, however humble their houses.
Only the middle classes can afford secondary school, shopkeepers, farmers, teachers, police and administrators of all sorts, some will have relatives in the west also sending money home. Church attendance is very high, even in cities, predominantly Christian, although Islamic areas are common. Work for educated children is very limited so many will migrate by whatever means, very often to join family contacts in their new country.
The society is much more matriarchal than we are, their values are instilled in their children wether they are first or second generation, also just like many Asians travel links are maintained with homeland

We saw with the Windrush issue most afrocarribbeans don’t maintain homeland links so never get a passport and have developed their own culture in the UK

I'm still unclear what point you're making, Katie59.

Whenever we've been to the Caribbean the plane has been chockablock with afrocaribbeans maintaining links with their homeland.

I'm afraid I'm still unclear too.

I was aware of the different backgrounds of those with West African and Caribbean heritage, but I'm still unclear what your point is. By the way, not all Africans come from the same kind of background either. The back story of those from Somalia or Eritrea, for example, is often very different.

Katie59 Are you implying that those with an Afro-Caribbean background are likely to be involved in drugs and crime - in other words, stereotypical blacks - but those with African heritage aren't?

I'm confused.

growstuff

Chestnut Professor Matt Goodwin is known for being right wing and not unbiassed.

There is nothing wrong with being right wing or left wing, it's the extreme right or left wing who are dangerous.

Presumably he does not meet with your approval, just like some of the panel on the race report. It seems just because people's views do not agree with yours then they are biased and must be wrong.

growstuff

Katie59 Are you implying that those with an Afro-Caribbean background are likely to be involved in drugs and crime - in other words, stereotypical blacks - but those with African heritage aren't?

I'm confused.

I’m not implying anything, my response was to African students achieving better results at school, trying to explain why I think that is.
It’s just my opinion, from what I have seen in the UK and overseas

Chestnut

growstuff

Chestnut Professor Matt Goodwin is known for being right wing and not unbiassed.

There is nothing wrong with being right wing or left wing, it's the extreme right or left wing who are dangerous.

Presumably he does not meet with your approval, just like some of the panel on the race report. It seems just because people's views do not agree with yours then they are biased and must be wrong.

Not a question of meeting with my approval (what a strange thing to write ). I was just stating that Matt Goodwin is not unbiassed.

His comment is very much a reflection of focus group mentality. The Conservatives want to retain their red wall seats. The predominant socio-economic make up of people in red wall seats is white working class with low educational attainment. It doesn't take a genius to work out what Conservative policy makers are doing.

Chestnut It's obvious you don't like me, but please refrain from making personal comments and assuming you know what I think.

Perhaps you could practice what you preach growstuff the next time you want to refer to a post of mine as "meaningless and sycophantic".

Smileless2012

Perhaps you could practice what you preach growstuff the next time you want to refer to a post of mine as "meaningless and sycophantic".

But it was.

growstuff

Chestnut It's obvious you don't like me, but please refrain from making personal comments and assuming you know what I think.

Surely this post is assuming what I think? It's obvious you don't like me is an assumption. Don't we all get an idea of what people think from their posts? You have indicated you do not accept what Matt Goodwin says because he is 'right wing and not unbiassed' as if that is a reason for dismissing his article.

Speaking of disparities, let's just leave the ethnic groups for a minute and think about our white working classes such as Professor Matt Goodwin has written about in the DM today.
How refreshing to read the grass-roots truth on these particular classes of people since the general public have all but forgotten about them.

It is the children from these backgrounds who suffer some of the worst outcomes in society. The Professor goes on to say that he was brought up by his single mum on the outskirts of London where stress was part of their everyday life.

Like many others from a working class background, he never felt as though he fitted in with society and was even worse when he went on to pass exams at school to end up at a uni on the outskirts of Manchester---for the " non-elite ". He said it was a miracle that he and his other " sort " were there at all.

22% of working class were more likely to reach the stage of further education compared to 45% of their peers, who were black and 56% Asian kids.
White working class kids were bottom of the pile.

The long forgotten and ignored white working class doesn't figure in this land of new ideology.

Only those who have lived through the 50's and 60's have any understanding of how things were if you wanted to get on in life back then.
Well said by Matt Goodwin. I was thoroughly disgusted reading what he had to say because it's the truth whether you like it or not.

John Lennon sings about a " Working Class Hero ". They are/ were and always will be !!

Good post EllanVannin. What he says will be uncomfortable and not sit well with some people:
We appear to have lost interest in the broad and unifying stories that used to hold the British people together, such as our shared citizenship, pride in our history and strong feelings of national identity.
In the world of the woke, all of these are 'taboo' — to be deconstructed and dismantled.
And into this vacuum has stepped an incredibly simplistic, divisive and 'binary' view of the world.
There are now only two groups in society — the virtuous 'good' groups like women, non-whites, immigrants and people who are LGBT+, and the 'bad' groups, like straight men and the white working class.

Well if you listen to Owen Jones I am sure that you could come away with that impression, it's possible the discussion is much more nuanced than that.

When we start to say things like the white boys are disadvantaged too, I get whiffs of "All lives matter". Just because more than one group is disadvantaged, that doesn't negate the disadvantages that the group that are subject to this report are subject to. Trying to move the discussion onto the problems suffered by other groups is just deflection.

Yes, white boys from certain backgrounds are disadvantaged. Dos that mean we can't talk about the black ones who are? Does that mean we need to ignore that? Of course not.

I grew up in the sixties. Didn't have an inside toilet till I was 5. Had a nice life though. That doesn't mean that I can't see what discrimination black people have to suffer in the UK today.

By the way - what colour was Lennon's Working Class Hero? I don't remember him saying.

Chestnut he's the hero in my eyes. I certainly knew how things were with Liverpool on the doorstep. Heartbreaking for many.
I don't care about how uncomfortable it is for others, it's the truth and those times shouldn't ever be forgotten. It's only those with selective memories who'll think it unimportant.

Thank God I'm not part of this insidious "woke" society and never will be.

I spend every governor meeting looking at ways to support white working class boys. whether we are making a difference is a different matter, pupil premium was a great idea but isnt perfect. Sure start centres were actually one of the ways to address the disadvantages of that group but they have been cut of course.

Alegrias does it matter what colour ? Jeeze, are you brainwashed !

Alegrias does it matter what colour ?

No EV it doesn't. That's my point.

Why ask what colour the Working Class Hero was then ?

Right I'll explain.

You referenced the song as (I think) an example of how difficult it was for young men in the sixties to get on in the world. You were using it as an illustration of how hard life was in the sixties. I imagine ( John Lennon reference there ) that you were considering the Lennon was talking about young white men. But he doesn't say, does he? You have assigned whiteness to the hero of his song but not considered that it was equally bad for young black people.

The point is kind of lost now.....

Yes, white boys from certain backgrounds are disadvantaged. Dos that mean we can't talk about the black ones who are?
I think the point being made is that there is a great deal of talking now about black and ethnic minorities being disadvantaged and very little attention paid to poor white youngsters, which is why they have been slipping downwards for some time.