A year of Starmer What do you think?

The only Labour PM to win three consecutive elections was Blair, the country wanted centre left . Since Blair and Brown we have had 12 years of tory government.

After Michael Foot was leader we had 18 years or tory government

Doodledog I wasn't disagreeing with you. I know very well how difficult it is to get out of the JAM situation. As I've written repeatedly, I'm one of them, so of course I know.

I care a lot more that people who don't seem to have got over Corbyn are doing so much to harm the chances of a Labour government. There are people in this country who need a government which cares about them, who aren't necessarily the very poorest or downtrodden, and there are people who profess to be socialists who actually don't really care about them but are more concerned about waiting for some "pure" form of socialism.

Gossamerbeynon1945

Trisher - I have read a lot of your posts and you come across as an intelligent woman. Do you, deep down inside, really believe that Tran Women are Women?

I think they are people and I really don't understand some women's hatred of them. I personally know two. I don't care and the women I know who come into contact with them don't care.

He’s got a problem at the moment in that Johnson seems to be going against some of his party eg not easing lockdown as fast as they want him to. And Keir will do what’s best for the country even if it means supporting Johnson. Which is, in the middle of a pandemic, the right thing to do imo.

trisher I could have written your reply word for word, as it seems to be a stock response from you to any question about trans issues . Do you ever engage with posters and answer off the cuff? Sometimes it feels like listening to a politician on PMQ.

growstuff I’m not saying that people on benefits are scroungers. No doubt some will be, but there are people in work who don’t pull their weight- such is life - but that wasn’t my point.

It’s the way that people are often unable to get out of a JAM state, as every time they try, money is clawed back, pound for pound, so any sacrifices have been for nothing (apart from feeling like a mug/having a sense of satisfaction for having supported themselves).

I think that this is deliberate- partly because minimum pay rates are set to benefit employers, and partly to keep people in line. If you don’t keep on the right side of the line you will become one of ‘them’ - the people you have been taught to demonise.

I loathe means testing, as I see it as being responsible for this situation. Whether it’s pensions, care homes, entry to places of interest or assisted places on classes, it seems like the rich buy their way out of it, the poor get it paid for, and the JAMs get the worst deal.

If Sir Kier can solve that conundrum (Universal Benefit? A decent living wage?) I think he would get the respect and votes f swathes of the country, regardless of Brexit.

So far I'm rather disappointed.

However, it has been a very strange time.

They are no threat but are they women ?

Gossamerbeynon1945

Trisher - I have read a lot of your posts and you come across as an intelligent woman. Do you, deep down inside, really believe that Tran Women are Women?

I know that Transwomen face the same discrimination and even more victimisation that natal women. And if the person standing beside me looks like a woman, behaves like a woman and is recognised by society as a woman I do not see the need (and I certainly don't intend to) to look at her genitalia or ask for other evidence. Transwomen have lived and worked alongside others for years. They're not a new phenomena and they are no threat to me or other women.

A long piece

Keir Starmer Has Spent a Year Pushing Labour to the Right
BY

DANIEL FINN

jacobinmag.com/2021/04/keir-starmer-labour-party-leader-uk-left

growstuff

PippaZ

Gossamerbeynon1945

Until Starmer ditches his TWAW opinion he will lose a lot of women voters. Does he really believe this statement? He needs to get a grip.

Important to you but fairly low down on the overall reasons for voting I would have thought.

I don't think most people care either, especially younger ones.

I'm not sure they don't care, some will and some will be completely unaware but I don't think it will swing a vote in many cases.

Trisher - I have read a lot of your posts and you come across as an intelligent woman. Do you, deep down inside, really believe that Tran Women are Women?

I think there are lots of women who live and work with transwomen, so they understand TWAW and know it's the right policy for Labour.

Growstuff - I think lots of women care.

PippaZ

Gossamerbeynon1945

Until Starmer ditches his TWAW opinion he will lose a lot of women voters. Does he really believe this statement? He needs to get a grip.

Important to you but fairly low down on the overall reasons for voting I would have thought.

I don't think most people care either, especially younger ones.

Exactly Doodledog! You've described many people who probably changed to Conservative very well. Before the last election I was bombarded by pictures of starving people and stories of those in poverty. Unfortunately, that probably had the reverse effect on the JAMs. They've been brainwashed by years of stories about benefit scroungers, but there is an element of truth. BTW I'm one of them.

Ilovecheese

I think it shows what sort of a person she is though growstuff the sort that will jump on a bandwagon and punch down. What will it be next time? Will she find another soft target and go for them?

But people don't mind voting for Conservatives who make a habit of jumping bandwagons.

Doodledog - No, not easy. My grandson who is 18 and bi-lingual agrees with me, people cannot change sex. I have seen a lot of forms etc. including NHS that ask you what gender you are.

Gender is a social construct

Speaking of sex, I have an inherited disease that only affects females, never affects males.

I think it shows what sort of a person she is though growstuff the sort that will jump on a bandwagon and punch down. What will it be next time? Will she find another soft target and go for them?

I don't know. Like most of us, I can only speak about my own friendship groups, and I do know that a sizeable number of people who have always been left-leaning feminists, supportive of LGBT+ issues are now seriously concerned about the anti-feminist agenda of the TRA, and are seriously thinking about how to vote.

There is a lot of time between now and the next GE, of course, and who knows what over issues will have arisen by then, but as things stand, I do think it is a real issue.

I feel sorry for MPs, as if they go with the TWAW line they alienate middle aged feminists, but if they don't they risk alienating the young 'woke' brigade. It can't be easy, whatever they think as individuals.

I think quite a lot will! Look at LabourLosingWomen and WomenAreWatching on Twitter and read Feminism on Mumsnet

Doodledog do you really believe thousands and thousands of
women will vote with TWAW in their minds ?

I quite liked Tony Blair until his illegal war and the I went right off him. I have never felt so politically homeless. Who do I vote for? (Don't like Boris)

Anniebach

I doubt people will be concerned about TWAW when they vote

A year ago I would have agreed with you, but I know several women who are Labour voters by inclination, but who are now feeling disenfranchised because of it, and are unsure how to vote. And that's just the ones who aren't afraid to talk about it and express their views.

Anniebach I don't suppose they will. until it affects them or someone in their family.. Women should stick together, and support each other.