David Cameron and the Greenhill scandal

Yesterday a Parliamentary Enquiry heard that the collapse of Greensill will ultimately cost the U.K. taxpayer £5bn ????

One expert described it as

AS CLOSE TO FRAUD AS YOU COULD GET.

Mollygo

Grany -Wonderful wordy passage, but you lost me at Supine revisionism-elucidate please.

??

Grany -Wonderful wordy passage, but you lost me at Supine revisionism-elucidate please.

The strange configuration of modern Britain continues to dazzle and confuse as it lies pockmarked with decay and corruption. As Prince Philip is buried after a period of extraordinarily supine revisionism, Britain seems to be characterised by the twin phenomena of a strange, Ruritanian obsession with a dysfunctional family that evokes worship, and a political class that is knee-deep in nepotism.

Both the House of Windsor and House of Commons seem to operate with complete impunity.

...

This needs sorting out, it’s just a shame it has taken till now. My uncle who was a civil servant working in Parliament until the early 2000s used to say that there were some very devious practices going on. Sort the current situation out and set up rules to avoid any repeat, THEN go back and look at the clever manipulations that went on with past PM’s and call the perpetrators to book.

Their is a huge difference between an MP working part-time as a surgeon in the NHS to maintain her registration and a profiteering sleazy money grabber offering his Tory Party connections to the highest bidder.

Those sound legitimate challenges to me Whitewavemark2, as they are directly related to profiteering from their political connections. I’m not sure if you misunderstood the point I made about doing other work whilst an MP, to clarify I think they should be able to maintain connection with their previous role to keep any professional qualifications up to date, and do freelance roles in their own time, but not run another full time career concurrently when they are an MP, because as you said, that is a full time role.

I support The Good Law Project this is what they are currently doing

“We are suing Government over the award of lucrative PPE contracts, including to companies with political connections. The case will be heard in the High Court next month.
We are challenging the Cabinet Office for handing out market research contracts to not one but two companies with close ties to Dominic Cummings. We await the final judgment from the Court in relation to a contract handed to Public First.
With Runnymede Trust, we are challenging the culture of cronyism that means top public sector jobs are handed out based on who you know, not what you can do. The litigation challenges the appointment of Dido Harding, amongst others. We have now been granted permission for this case to be heard.
We are challenging the award of a whopping £22.6 million contract, awarded without competition to Bunzl Healthcare. Lord Feldman, former Conservative Party Chair, worked as an unpaid adviser to Health Minister Lord Bethell last year – whilst also running a lobbying firm. One of the clients of that lobbying firm was – you guessed it – Bunzl Healthcare. And next week will see the launch of further litigation - involving the award of a vast contract to a company represented by a man with links to No.10.
Going up against the significant resources of the state is not easy. But the alternative, allowing those in power to continue to benefit from rampant cronyism, is simply not an option”

TBH I’m on the fence with this.

A constituency MP, if the job is to be done to the best of their ability, must be a pretty busy and a second job will mean that one or other suffers as a result.

I take the point about keeping up a licence though, which presumably can be fulfilled during the long holidays..

I don’t agree that mps need a second job to gain experience you could say that of so many jobs.

My issue is sleaze and how it can be stopped.

I agree Alegrias1. I think it would put people off standing as MPs if a condition of appointment was that they gave up all other sources of income. We need people with a wide range of backgrounds and previous experience in the roles, not just career politicians. Apart from any other consideration, any MP is taking on a contract which may only last 5 years or less, so they need to keep other irons in the fire. That’s not to say that they should profit directly from their MP role though!

I don't think that would work WWM2

There is an SNP MP who has to work a certain number of hours (can't recall how much) to maintain her licence as a surgeon. She could get voted out of her seat at any time so needs to keep her career on the back burner.

I have shares in 2 companies I used to work for. I have a second property in my home town. Am I to be blocked from Parliament because of that?

We need limits about what MPs can do but a blanket ban, like most blanket bans, is unworkable, IMO.

Matt Thomas

How about this: MPs aren't allowed to earn any other income apart from their salary. No seats on boards. No consulting. No lobbying. No shares. No second property. If you want to represent the people, you work at one job. If you don't like it, make way for someone more worthwhile

Dr Dominic Pimenta

Just so you’re keeping up:

- PM: gave his lover £126,000 of public funds + £700k loan
- Chancellor: lobbied treasury for ex-PM
- Health Sec: 15% stake in a firm won NHS contract
- Home Sec: Nigerian gas lobbying
- Trade Sec: friend awarded PPE contract to offshore accountancy

I tend to think it is general apathy because of the effects of covid but so many people seem to think the PM has done a GOOD job

MaizieD I am not sure that half of the population approves of corruption too.

In my opinion they are far too busy keeping their heads/businesses above water and coping with all the family stresses of Covid, than to give more than a moment’s glance at the politics pages or news items.

I will have to think long and hard at the next general election if our current MP stands again, as they are so far a good constituency MP

JaneJudge

I was wondering about conflict of interests but surely they all have to sign a COC any way?
how are they getting away with this?

They are getting away with it because the person who is responsible for seeing that the Ministerial Code is observed and thus for sanctioning those who deviate from it (in the past the sanction was making them resign) is the Prime Minister. Unfortunately our current PM is as corrupt as his Ministers.
Also in the past, the media would have been screaming blue murder and forcing the PM's hand. This is not happening now.

And, public disapproval of corrupt conduct would have been been reflected in the polls. The latest polls show support for the tories is actually increasing. It is utterly astounding. One can only conclude that nearly half of the population approves of corruption too.

JaneJudge

Yes, my son told me that Avalon - unbelievable

Jane yes I share your incredulity - only £60m and all those texts to send??

Yes, my son told me that Avalon - unbelievable

Just read if Greensill had not gone bust Cameron was boasting he had shares in the company worth £60 million!

25Avalon

Too much ‘old boy’ network still in existence. As far as I’ve read and understand it Cameron didn’t break the rules - BUT on a technicality only as he knew what the rule said and how to get round it legally by a whisper. Obviously never thought he would come unstuck. Such arrogance. Too much sleaze across all parties over the years.

WW2 I have voted Conservative for the past 5 years and I think my remark makes it clear I disapprove of what is happening. However, I am not a dyed in the wool conservative so maybe I don’t count.

Regarding Hancock it appears he gets away with it because it was NHS Wales. A few years back he declared an interest re his brother so no excuses. He does know to reveal family interests so why not with his sister?

I am more than happy to be the odd exception

Unfortunately with the Conservatives and PM riding high in the polls I imagine they feel pretty much invisible.

It is obvious how they are getting away with it, and will continue to do so.

With the very odd exception, not one Tory supporter has posted to say that they are even mildly uncomfortable with the situation. Not one.

So the media ensures that they nod along with glazed eyes and the sleaze continues unabated.

Alegrias1

Thanks for the explanation suzie. I'm certainly not defending him!

Great minds Nandalot

Oh I knew that - I was just illustrating from experience the mental gymnastics people get up to in trying to evade the issue of declaring an interest, conflict of interest and perception. MH knew exactly what he was doing and he was just taking us all for fools ( which generally speaking works out well).,

I was wondering about conflict of interests but surely they all have to sign a COC any way?
how are they getting away with this?