Mr Johnson and Mr Cummings

growstuff

Casdon

This interested me - it’s not just a Thatcher gold star for frugality as Gordon Brown spent virtually nothing either. The biggest issue with Carrie’s refurb is that it’s very much an acquired taste - whoever follows may well be justified in changing the dark green walls and dark wood everything.

I disagree. The biggest issue is who paid for it.

It's really the only issue, growstuff.

Sorry didn’t make myself clear there growstuff, what I meant was that it will have to be changed again when she leaves Downing Street, at further expense, because few people could live with her choices.

Of course who paid for this refurb is more important.

Surely a neutral refurb that the next incumbent can live with as well is the sensible way to refurbish what is essentially a rented property - and David Cameron had that done not so many years ago at a cost of 68k.

JaneJudge I doubt very much if we're the only ones, but that doesn't really matter. The point is that there certainly are people who care and, as we live in a society where we are still allowed free speech, we can discuss it as much as we want.

If there are people who couldn't care less, maybe because they would do anything for an easy life (who knows?), I don't know why they don't just ignore topics they don't care about. I don't understand why they butt in and contribute comments claiming than nobody cares and it's all a storm in a teacup or try to deflect from the main discussion.

I fel the same way as you growstuff

Casdon

This interested me - it’s not just a Thatcher gold star for frugality as Gordon Brown spent virtually nothing either. The biggest issue with Carrie’s refurb is that it’s very much an acquired taste - whoever follows may well be justified in changing the dark green walls and dark wood everything.

I disagree. The biggest issue is who paid for it.

This thread seems to have established that Urmstongran and some others don't care about sleaze and cronyism, while others do care about it. There doesn't appear to be much point discussing how many other people care because we don't know. In my opinion, anybody who cares even one little bit about democracy and accountability should care about the standards of elected leaders. That's what some people were claiming was one of the reasons they voted for Brexit.

I haven't a clue what goes on behind the closed doors of Downing Street or in Whatsapp groups, but there's quite clearly something wrong. I have no doubt that some advisers are wracking their brains to think how they can spin their way out of trouble.

Cummings knew that he could achieve the unthinkable. While people were saying "you can't do that" he did it and got away with it - and encouraged Johnson to do the same. It's absolute nonsense to claim that it's always been the same because it hasn't. In the past, if politicians and senior officials were found out acting dishonourably, they resigned or were sacked. Nowadays, they get away with it and people just look the other way or say there's nothing they can do. Quite honestly, if there is really nothing that can be done, it's an admission that democracy is a sham.

This interested me - it’s not just a Thatcher gold star for frugality as Gordon Brown spent virtually nothing either. The biggest issue with Carrie’s refurb is that it’s very much an acquired taste - whoever follows may well be justified in changing the dark green walls and dark wood everything.

Just imagine if Corbyn had spent 200k on gold wallpaper......

Good.

Urmstongran

Margaret Thatcher changed very little during her tenure. It isn’t mandatory MaizieD.

And why the terse ‘FGS’? You are so quick to be nasty. I never find it necessary to be so personal during a debate.

It is 40 years since Thatcher was PM. You're scraping the barrel.

I have deleted the rest of my response...

The public purse, allows £30,000 a year for the PM's apartment. Wanting to spend more is fine but it needs to be above board. So good try Urmstongran but your argument is yet another logical fallacy.

Nobody is arguing about what was spent or whether it improves the value for the public purse. It's all about whether the difference was funded by a donor initially and that not declared. I'm not sure there is an argument about that not being done except for him putting it all before the right people in parliament asap.

I’m not a member of the Conservative Party. Believe me or not, it’s your prerogative. I voted Boris because I wanted Brexit. It’s done. We’re out. I’m happy.

Margaret Thatcher changed very little during her tenure. It isn’t mandatory MaizieD.

And why the terse ‘FGS’? You are so quick to be nasty. I never find it necessary to be so personal during a debate.

The state property portfolio benefits. The future incumbents of Downing Street all benefit. There is no personal gain or graft here.

Oh, FGS, Ug. What planet are you on that believe that?
Every new incumbent of the Prime Ministerial flat, be it at No 10 or No 11, gives it a makeover. At our expense.

I really can't think that any future tenant would want for one moment to live with Carrie Antoinette's taste..

I have to respectfully disagree MaizieD and growstuff. I’m not toeing any ‘party line’. I’m not a member. Just interested in politics.

I actually don't believe you. Sorry...

Let's face it Dominic (but I was only going for a walk) Cummings is going to drag up every tiny bit of dirt on Boris that he can , in a desperate attempt to make himself look a lot better than he actually is.
Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him!
Boris may well have been trying desperately to get what was needed, as quickly as needed but have to wonder if other companies such as Merceded F1 team, along with the schools that were 3D printed hundreds of PPE items, without being asked, not to mention all those that got stuck in and sewed scrubs and face masks will get the same deal as far as tax goes????

We're talking about Johnson here UG. I think he might have a go

Has anyone seen the new makeover? It makes Changing Rooms look like the height of good taste? Has everyone forgotten about the now scrapped news room by the way?

Well he can’t take it with him!
?

Ah, Boris did it for whoever comes after, and for us! Warms the cockles of my heart.

Labour will want their money’s worth out of the sleaze accusations.

Face it, nothing else has worked for them.

Plus, the BBC news has just laboured the Downing Street apartment refurbishment as if it is some sort of horrendous corruption scandal.

What arrant nonsense!

If the apartment (probably that more physically associated with No 11 than No 10) is upgraded and the cost is funded by other than the public purse, whilst the asset remains public property, what is the big deal as to whether Boris paid, or Tory donors paid?

The state property portfolio benefits. The future incumbents of Downing Street all benefit. There is no personal gain or graft here.

Agree Rosina isn’t it said politics is a dirty business?

I’m not as cynical as those who dismiss voters as not interested, or not bright enough.
I’m no fan of Corbyn but I do believe a Labour govt would have made a better job of responding to this pandemic, even with Corbyn as leadet

Suziewoozie Are you saying it's all true?
How would I know - how would you know? My point was that there is so much ugly and bitter mud slinging , shouting and pointing by the disappointed and now powerless, and this can be one of the few certainties in politics today. Who on this thread hasn't, in a fairly long life, had their words twisted by someone out to make trouble? The most innocent remark or deed can be turned around and used as ammunition, and this is what happens so often in politics. It's ugly, and all sides do it.

You don't have to be "not political" not to care about any of that - you need to have your head very firmly stuck in the sand and the moral values of a goldfish

I care.
Which is why I read up and post on here.
The vast majority of voters couldn’t give a toss.

I’ve sat in groups of friends and am mindful of eyes glazing over at any depth of conversation about politics. Fair enough. I then say ‘enough about politics. Does anyone know how much big box soap powders are these days?’ We laugh and move on.

These fora are a delight for like minded politicos. I just know most of the population aren’t that enthused and I can accept that!