The Troubles

The army should never have been there at all.

Agreed

They should have been left to fight it out and if ethnic cleansing took place, at least our boys would not have been maimed or died.
That applies to Afghanistan, Iraq

AmbrrSpyglass, don’t suggest Bloody Sunday, or any other atrocity means nothing to me. You sit on your moral high ground. Leave the work towards peace and reconciliation to the courageous. Mo Moslem rip.

"It almost seemed miraculous in South Africa what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission achieved"

I seem to remember a cross party group from NI visiting SA to ask advice on the way to reconcile. They were told that the one thing they should do is integrate the schools.

Have they done that?

I read a survey of parents in NI who were asked whether they wanted their children to be able to attend integrated schools. Over 90% said yes, yet less than 10% have that opportunity.

Nana I’m pretty sure a lot of the people in NI - not just the ones who experienced war crimes at the hands of British Troops - would speak from their actual experience.

The army should never have been there at all.

Iam64

AmberSpyglass, the paramilitaries murdered, knee capped, behaved like the gangsters many of the still are. The army went in to attempt to save lives. Lives were lost on all sides.
Katie59, you know your brothers experience wasn’t isolated. Terrifying for everyone, including those young soldiers. It’s lazy and simplistic to absolve terrorists of responsibility for murder/torture/criminal behaviour and to refuse to allow men in their 70’s some peace.

Is there a way to do this? I’m not saying there isn’t but how could it happen? It almost seemed miraculous in South Africa what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission achieved. But that happened at the time - we’re now talking decades later. I still don’t understand why this latest trial ever happened - the issue of admissibility of the evidence must have been clear from the onset - the legal arguments were not complex in this case.

You can have as informed opinion as you like Amber but I have every right to disagree with you and I do so from the point of view that I was there. Were you there? Did you experience being shot at, rioted against, and bombed ? So I think I can safely say I speak from actual experience not informed opinion.

You can say they didn't shoot people in the back but I can tell you the IRA took every opportunity to shoot British Troops. Who can forget the TV footage of the young soldiers dragged from their car and murdered in cold blood?

Does Bloody Sunday mean nothing to you?

It’s clear that there are very solid reasons for prosecuting those responsible for disgusting criminal acts after the fact.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/22/northern-ireland-no-amnesty-veterans-amritsar-bloody-sunday

www.newstatesman.com/politics/northern-ireland/2019/03/how-british-forces-colluded-sectarian-violence-northern-ireland

AmberSpyglass, the paramilitaries murdered, knee capped, behaved like the gangsters many of the still are. The army went in to attempt to save lives. Lives were lost on all sides.
Katie59, you know your brothers experience wasn’t isolated. Terrifying for everyone, including those young soldiers. It’s lazy and simplistic to absolve terrorists of responsibility for murder/torture/criminal behaviour and to refuse to allow men in their 70’s some peace.

Couldn’t agree more Katie59

My brother was a soldier in NI during the troubles, he’s never been the same, unable to settle, 3 failed marriages, post traumatic stress disorder. Going out on patrol knowing that there’s a bomb round the corner or someone is pointing a rifle at you wears you down, some break down and loose control.
Afghanistan is the same you don’t know the pressure unless you are there.

Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. And British soldiers committed terrible crimes there that they should rightly be punished for. The shocking thing is how long it’s taken, not that they’re now old.

The British Army was there in a legal capacity; the IRA was not.

oldwoman70

Well, of course - all our previously held opinions colour our responses to the thread. That’s why we’re here! I could say the same about you.

What about Tony Blair?

They didn’t need to shoot people in the back , no matter how wicked that person was

AmberSpyglass You have previously said you disagree with the British Army being there so that must surely colour your opinion - the very fact they were there was wrong so everything they did was wrong.

The function of the military, as is the function of the police, is protecting government interests rather than people. Individual soldiers may protect people - the military doesn’t.

"who weren’t protecting people, they were protecting the union"

They were protecting innocent people from terrorists and from being shot and blown up by a minority trying to inflict their will on everyone else. It is very easy to sit back, after the event when the danger has passed, and make judgements.

So does that mean that people who served and committed crimes shouldn’t be challenged on that? I don’t want to tar any one person but overall I disagree with the presence of the British army there and many of their actions.

The idea that someone who didn’t serve doesn’t have the right to an informed opinion is a bit ridiculous.

Yes it is.

I served during those times and as they say - if you weren't there you don't know what it was like. You can read all the accounts you like but the reality of it was something else.

I totally reject your comment Amber there were good guys there and they gave their lives to serve and protect AND they were protecting the people .

I could list time after time where that was the case and as I served and saw first hand I think I can speak from experience .

I’m saying that there weren’t any good guys in this situation and age should not be a barrier to justice being served. I do agree with the pardoning of some IRA members but not exclusively, much as I’m not saying every single British soldier (who weren’t protecting people, they were protecting the union) should be prosecuted. Many of them, however, should be.

AmberSpyglass

I don’t believe in comparing anything or anyone to Nazis but we have to reject this narrative of the British soldiers in NI as somehow being the good guys rather than contributing to the situation they claimed they were monitoring.

Are you suggesting the IRA were "the good guys" - blowing up innocent civilians - both in N.I. and in England and deserve to be pardoned yet the soldiers attempting to protect people are to be hounded into their old age?

I don’t believe in comparing anything or anyone to Nazis but we have to reject this narrative of the British soldiers in NI as somehow being the good guys rather than contributing to the situation they claimed they were monitoring.

greenlady102

so war trials are wrong too? Nazi hunting shouldn't happen?

Are you really comparing British soldiers fighting terrorists to Nazis!!

Absolutely not. The unionist soldiers committed horrific crimes, why should they be let off?