What I think will happen tomorrow

Yes some of the failures of labour in the north are without a doubt to do with the failure of the labour council to deliver so I am sure the opposite also occurs.

Devorgilla

Some people have the skills to operate in a national setting and some in a regional setting. Andy obviously works well in G.Manchester. Whether his skills would translate into the larger arena is debatable.
I did have a laugh at the Tory calling Keir dull and boring. Has he never met Gavin Williamson?

Gavin Williamsn isn't leading a political party. Keir is. You can be dull and boring in the background, it isn't a good look for a leader.

The thing is trisher so is Mark Drakeford (leading his party), and even his big fans, of which I’m one, would never say he’s Mr Personality. He’s quiet and efficient and trustworthy - which is what we need now, even if it’s not as ‘exciting’ as the Labour Party having a Boris clone.

I thought Mark Drakeford was more like a kindly old-fashioned headmaster, Casdon and that Carwyn Jones would be a hard act to follow, but he is very quietly determined.

He looked better in his casual clothes too!

trisher

You could say that suziebut then the obvious question is what does that mean which means you have to look at what each has done. And they are so different. So perhaps the conclusion has to be it doesn't matter what you do as long as you do something.Which pretty much means party politics doesn't matter.

Yes trisher you have hit the nail on the head there??
At a local level it’s all about what a Council or a Mayor do for the area ( as long as it’s good things, naturally)?
At a GE there is more to think about.

Willie Rennie of the Lib Dems got returned in the constituency where I live. I am bemused, as he seems to have done nothing at all for the area (happy to be shown otherwise).

But he has been on the news all the time, getting his photo taken in giant deckchairs, playing giant chess, taking a karate lesson.... The candidate who came second, I wouldn't know him if I passed him in the street, although he did leaflet us quite a lot. Having a public profile must make a difference, surely?

Alegrias1 If you crunch the numbers for your seat, it is obvious that the Tories and Labour voters "lent" their unionist votes to the Liberals in order to deny the SNP a gain.

You're right Granny23. I was pleased to see that despite that, the SNP candidate increased his vote by 3,000.

Also quite bemused by the fact that none of the media outlets are reporting that the Lib Dems now have 4 seats in the Parliament, down 1 from their 5 last time, and that they are no longer considered a proper party (my words, not the official ones). So they get no seats on committees etc and many fewer opportunities to ask questions, I think.

Tracy Brabin has been elected as the first mayor of West Yorkshire so there will be a by-election there.

It will be a very important byelection where the voters in Batley and Spen will choose between a candidate who is the successor of Tracey Brabin and Jo Cox or the sort of people whose warped thinking led to the murder of Jo Cox

I think the Labour party needs to listen to voters. Starmer admirably demonstrated the opposite with the pub landlord incident. It's no good them telling voters what they should think whilst refusing to listen and act on what they actually think. There is none so dim as those that will not listen.

How so varian ? Do you think the BNP will be fielding a candidate for that by-election?

The BNP do not need to field a candidate. Their supporters will have enough dog whistle signals which direct their votes - not towards the Labour Party..

Gajahgran

I think the Labour party needs to listen to voters. Starmer admirably demonstrated the opposite with the pub landlord incident. It's no good them telling voters what they should think whilst refusing to listen and act on what they actually think. There is none so dim as those that will not listen.

I'm not at all sure why they should. Surely each party and its members make an offer to voters (who are not members) and we decide who to vote for?

I have a feeling that "listening" might mean if they tried to appease everyone, that they were in a much worse place. Hearing about issues that people have is probably worthwhile though.

We could try it out. If you had a team from each leadership sitting quietly in front of you what would you say you want. Shall we say that it should be limited to three concise points and anyone can make them? They must be specific and for the whole country - not about who is part of the party machinery, that is for each party to decide. I'll start:

1. Bring taxes on unearned income in line with earned income.
2. Bring in PR
3. Change our education system to be more like the Nordic countries.

varian

It will be a very important byelection where the voters in Batley and Spen will choose between a candidate who is the successor of Tracey Brabin and Jo Cox or the sort of people whose warped thinking led to the murder of Jo Cox

Tracy Brabin was lucky to win in 2019. The Conservatives could have won if the Heavy Woollen District Independents (aka UKIP) hadn't fielded a candidate.

PippaZ so you are saying the political parties should form ideas totally at odds with the voters they are supposed to represent and then expect to be voted in. I think the Lib Dems have shown how that goes.
Obviously they cannot appease everybody but at least they could represent a good proportion. It's no good saying there is something wrong with the voters if you don't win the election. "It's not us it's them."

It would be impossible to appease everybody. Political parties need to have core values and to have red lines where they are concerned. However, they also need to be pragmatic enough to realise that they need the majority of voters on their side and to recognise that compromises need to be made. The alternative is to make false promises to enough voters to "buy" their votes and get them onside. There are no alternatives in a FPTP system, which isn't going away for the foreseeable future.

The Tories are now the Conservukips so that’s why they are getting votes in the Ukippy areas.

vegansrock

The Tories are now the Conservukips so that’s why they are getting votes in the Ukippy areas.

Exactly! Hence the culture war.

The Tories are certainly “straining every sinew” to ensure future success in elections that is for sure.

Voter ID to prevent election fraud they say. Guess who was last found guilty of election fraud? Guess who is most likely to vote Labour and least likely to get their act together to get an ID. If you need an ID to vote then they should be made compulsory at voting age.

The police bill to imprison a draconian 10 years those protesting and being noisy. Have you ever been on a protest that wasn’t noisy. There is no way you can remotely argue that the punishment fits the crime or even if it should be a crime.

Reform of the judiciary. The Tories are gunning for the judges who clipped their wings by insisting that they (the Tories) follow the law, which they broke.

Next of course we will have boundary changes which will be loaded.

Yes I have been on protests which were not noisy, and when they were noisy but police were not attacked

Surely stopping fraudulent voters has to be a good idea. I like to believe our elections are fair and honest.

Gajahgran

PippaZ so you are saying the political parties should form ideas totally at odds with the voters they are supposed to represent and then expect to be voted in. I think the Lib Dems have shown how that goes.
Obviously they cannot appease everybody but at least they could represent a good proportion. It's no good saying there is something wrong with the voters if you don't win the election. "It's not us it's them."

Where are their policies that are totally at odds with the voters? Tell me one policy where that is currently the case. You may not like them but presumably, the party does. This has not been about people bothering to even understand the policies for a long time - it's about feelings. Of course, parties need to know how the voters feel and why they feel that way and try to present their policies in a way that makes them "feel" good to the majority but they do not - no party does - ask them to decide what policies they put forward.

Parties need thinking and facts not feelings when determining policies. If a small group of people think that they want to form a party and put forward policies they are entitled to do so. What you seem to be saying is the mass of the voters should decide the policies. No party does that (thankfully). All parties put forward an offering and you vote on it. We do not run our country by plebiscite. If you want that, form a party and change the system.

There is something wrong if people only ever vote with their feelings instead of their brains. We all know what that can lead to and personally, I don't want a storming of parliament.

The UK has low levels of proven electoral fraud.

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-views-and-research/our-research/electoral-fraud-data/2019-electoral-fraud-data

I see that there was one attempt in the PCC elections. Was that the Tory guy who stood despite being disbarred because of his police record?

The last conviction for electoral fraud was the vote leave campaign.