Anyone understand why Johnson is so far ahead in the polls? ( 2)

growstuff

The problem is that Labour's historic "core membership" doesn't exist any more - at least, not in the way it did in the past. It was based on heavy industries, which have gone, unions, which are nowhere near so powerful, and the non-conformist churches, which are far less influential.

The Conservative Party in the UK are like the overlords in their castles and the opposition parties are floundering to find strategies to attack. They need to bring together groups with different aims in enough numbers to make an effective attack, which isn't easy.

But the Conservative "core" is dying off - literally. Are the next generations going to replace them? I don't think they were quite as big were they and we may be going into a time where people are more fickle with their vote.

I will never understand how Boris got in to No. 10 in the first place. Corruption, lies, etc just seem to be invisible where he is concerned. The Labour Party still isn’t a strong enough party but I do hope that they don’t get Corbyn back as he was dire. This is the worst government ever and it is like being on a speeding train and none of us can get off.

The problem is that Labour's historic "core membership" doesn't exist any more - at least, not in the way it did in the past. It was based on heavy industries, which have gone, unions, which are nowhere near so powerful, and the non-conformist churches, which are far less influential.

The Conservative Party in the UK are like the overlords in their castles and the opposition parties are floundering to find strategies to attack. They need to bring together groups with different aims in enough numbers to make an effective attack, which isn't easy.

I don’t think there is any effective opposition. Not good for the country. Since Tony Blair and ‘New Labour’ the party has been well and truly out of touch with their core membership and it’s taken a disastrous night at the polls to bring that home. Labour need a root and branch revisiting of their policies and they need to get back in touch with the working people of this country if they’re ever to get back into government. Until then we’re stuck with a Tory government who have to be shamed into doing anything for people in genuine need. The fact that in the 21st Century a wealthy nation like the UK has people relying on food banks is a national disgrace.

In both case I compared people who voted for the leader can be seen to bear some responsibility

In one case I compared people who voted for the leader can therefore be seen to bear some responsibility.

Mamardoit

It makes as much sense as using Nazi Germany as some sort of comparison to people voting Tory.

It was about people voting in the person who had such an effect on so many people who have died. People who voted for the man who offered them just what they thought they wanted - even though what he offered was never possible. So many comparisons not of voting Tory - although it was in this case - but in voting for a clown with lollipops. This time he has a silly haircut that time it was a silly moustache but both with arms full of promises that mean nothing.

I imagine it will be difficult for those who wanted him to see just what they have done - just as the German people shut their eyes at that time to what was being done in their name.

I have no way of altering what happens in Leicester. As I explained, unlike those whose vote has affected us all I cannot alter the Leicester constituency votes for their council as I do not live their and I did not vote for Bozo's government that will not fund the Labour council's properly.

Just to clarify - as you seem not to understand. In both case I compared people who voted for the leader can be seen to bear some responsibility. In the other no one outside Leicester and not voting for the current government can possibly be responsible for the Leicester council. There was nothing more they could do. It is an illegitimate argument.

Oh, and the comparison was not between Nazi Germany and people voting Tory. It was about two groups of people who were both deceive by extreme lies and propaganda but continued to find the deception easier to believe than the truth.

Ilovecheese

So getting rid of any left wingers remaining in a supposedly left wing party will really reunify the party and lead to more votes.

It might get lemon's vote

Great post Doodledog

MayBee70

There are a lot of comparisons with current politics and the Weimar Republic. Thankfully, at least Trump is gone.

Oh MayBee, I also find this is true and so very, very depressing and concerning. Does make me wonder if democracy is the right way forward.

Still would like to see major electorial reforms.
1. Compulsory voting - can abstain on ballot paper
2. proper system of having transferrable votesd fr second or third choices on subsequent ballots.

Would be so interesting to see how No. 2 would have actually changed anything in these last elections.

MaizieD

^They are not impressed to see Starmer in a John Lewis store brandishing a roll of wallpaper. They don't care about Boris's decorating.^

Well, there you have it in a nutshell. Tory voters have no sense of humour and they're happy with corruption.

How Labour are going to counteract that is a mystery.

Agreed, MaisieD, and it's depressing.

I don't understand why people don't care about the corruption. His decorating, his nanny, his mistress, and now his Caribbean holiday! How can people think that this is acceptable? I don't know how any party can counteract it - I can't even explain it.

Is is deference to privilege? Is it a genuine lowering of standards of decency? Is it really that people are so enamoured of a bumbling 'man of the people' persona that they don't care that he would rather have bodies piling up in the streets than see his mates lose profits? That they were happy to have decades of Austerity because 'there was no alternative', but aren't asking where the money is coming from to fund furlough, so long as they keep getting paid and aren't expected to live on Universal Credit like the people they despise?

It makes no sense to me at all, so I can't begin to think how an opposition of any colour can begin to know where to start.

So getting rid of any left wingers remaining in a supposedly left wing party will really reunify the party and lead to more votes.

Was it funny though? Nope, not remotely ( and I have a well developed sense of humour MaizieD) it was actually a lame sort of stunt, and as I like Starmer, found myself cringing for him.Left to himself he wouldn't have done it I bet, but his PR team urged him no doubt.
He needs to just keep on being himself, but maybe try and smile a bit more at times.Oh, and get rid of as many Corbyn fans from his Shadow Cabinet as he can.Unfortunately he can’t sack Raynor as Deputy as she was elected.What a negative drag on him she is.

They are not impressed to see Starmer in a John Lewis store brandishing a roll of wallpaper. They don't care about Boris's decorating.

Well, there you have it in a nutshell. Tory voters have no sense of humour and they're happy with corruption.

How Labour are going to counteract that is a mystery.

Long Corbyn???? shared that with DH and made him chuckle too.
Yesterday, Keir was action man at last!
He axed the cabinet members he thought had lost him the election! It’s a start.

JaneJudge

@ Long Corbyn

That made me chuckle too.

@ Long Corbyn

There are a lot of comparisons with current politics and the Weimar Republic. Thankfully, at least Trump is gone.

Voters want to know what plans Labour has for tackling the issues that concern them and where they live. They are not impressed to see Starmer in a John Lewis store brandishing a roll of wallpaper. They don't care about Boris's decorating. Instead of making himself look a complete idiot, Starmer should have been asking them what they want from their elected councillors and MP's. Listen to them and do something about it. As a couple of newspaper articles said. Labour is suffering from Long Corbyn and that will take a considerable time to recover from.

It makes as much sense as using Nazi Germany as some sort of comparison to people voting Tory.

I don't know if I have already posted this but we only had PCC elections here and the chap who got in was Conservative and had had obviously received lots of funding with his campaign.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned 'populism' (it may have been on the other thread-I've lost track) I went on local facebook yesterday and people were saying congratulations to him, saying he was the only person they knew campaigning etc and they LIKED him

There was a local candidate far better suited to the position who I'm presuming would have worked far better for our immediate area, who had publicised his campaign but I think a lot of people seem to just use facebook and social media to form their opinions....it is ridiculous really, the chap who they have voted in isn't going to do anything for our area at all..oh well I'm not sure I agree with this PCC thing anyway

‘A kicking’ is exactly what has happened so sorry you dislike the term PippaZ ?
Am not elderly or a football fan, nor grey haired or anything else that you can think of as derogatory, but considering that this is a forum for older people mainly, am guessing that many are and wonder why you are so ageist ( it’s a puzzle!)

I have absolutely no way of influencing Leicester Mamardoit. Your post makes no sense. In my own area I voted LD for a councillor I had some knowledge of. Nationally the last time I voted I did not vote for those now in government who could give Labour councils enough money to enable rather than disable them. Your attack makes no sense.

However, those who put the clown running this government into power do have to share in the responsibility for the way he conducted our fight, a non-existent one in the first instance, against Covid.

Greeneyedgirl

Yes, I am sure this is sometimes the case lemon but in my experience Tory voters would vote for a lump of lard here as long as a candidate sported a blue rosette. Conservatism is absorbed with mother’s milk. This time the leader of the council has lost his seat, in a hitherto safe area.

But don’t you see ? this lard/ pig / whatever scenario can and does also apply to the red rosette in places, and has done this time, especially in the North.
These local elections are local voters giving the different political parties a kicking for various reasons. It’s surprising,it’s true.

Hetty58

I'm just disappointed, as always, with the great British voting public.

I'm truly astounded that they'd still vote Conservative, even now, after the horrific failure to react quickly enough to save lives in the pandemic.

After all the too little, too late, half hearted responses - they vote for more of the same. Incredible!

This is so so depressing- truly. I have no words anymore.

I don't think the public did give any one party "a kicking" (sounds like we have an elderly football fan posting). They have voted for the status quo in each country, in general, and a different status quo in each case. To me this just says that people are saying "OK, I'm still alive, so I'll give you credit for that -now what?" If I was the "we won, we won, we won" football club follower type I wouldn't count my chicken (didn't warrant the plural). We hardly live in ordinary times.