Anyone understand why Johnson is so far ahead in the polls? ( 2)

I laughed about the ruffled hair,Algerias . It certainly looks very ruffled. My English SIL says anyone who has a hairstyle like that shouldn’t be PM . ???

The material point about the nightingale hospitals was that except in very specific circumstances where there was already a significant shortage of beds, they were not the solution the NHS itself had been involved in making, wanted, could staff or could see the logic in. It was a headline grabber for the government in the darkest times, aimed at reducing anxiety in the population.
Most nightingale hospitals weren’t needed, because most hospital systems have empty beds, which were recommissioned, and provided care in a safe environment. Staffing was a massive problem, but at least within the hospitals staff could be identified to work extra hours, moved from one role to another etc. very much like the vaccination programme in fact. We have a huge amount to thank the NHS for.

Maizie D The Nightingales were useless because there was no-one to staff them. The NHS was already short staffed and was stretched to breaking point and beyond.
Okay, what is your answer, how would you (and other critics) have dealt with the crisis, with too many patients and not enough nursing staff? I'm sure all those attacking Johnson for his approach would have handled the pandemic so much better. Do enlighten us.

Our posts crossed Chestnut. I have answered your point. Make no mistake, it was the NHS and other key workers that saved the population. The professional advisors to the the government should have been listened to and their recommendations acted on much sooner than they were. This is what will come from the Inquiry.

MaizieD

Chestnut

Dinahmo The Nightingale Hospitals were a knee jerk reaction to the situation and ill considered.
I'm sure they could do with a few of those in India at the moment, so not ill considered at all. It was done in anticipation of a mass outbreak and showed foresight. I'm sure you would have been even more outraged if people had been dying in the road as there were no hospital beds.

We did have a mass outbreak, people who needed ventilation were left to die on wards because there was none available for them. People were left to die at home...

The Nightingales were useless because there was no-one to staff them. The NHS was already short staffed and was stretched to breaking point and beyond. You may be able to make a hospital substitute in a few weeks, but recruiting and training staff takes considerably longer.

What is so difficult to understand about this?

I have not heard of anywhere / any hospital in the UK where patients who needed ventilation or other forms of Oxygen delivery where left to die on wards?

Yes people did die at home, for what reason though? Was it due to not contacting the emergency services, or the Covid helpline? Or due to their fear of going into hospital, blaming the PM for that scenario is wildly off mark.

Please can you give any evidence of this.

Staffing was a massive problem, but at least within the hospitals staff could be identified to work extra hours, moved from one role to another etc. very much like the vaccination programme in fact. We have a huge amount to thank the NHS for.

Yes, we do.
Existing staff and newly qualified staff were trained in ICU procedures fairly quickly as the numbers needed were far above those required under normal circumstances. They also worked longer shifts.
Laboratory staff were also trained as testing for Covid was not carried out in the pathology labs; separate facilities were set up.

The Forces were also drafted in to help, especially with the vaccination programme.

Alegrias1

^France had 250 deaths this week ^

Hmmm .... check your figures.....

Yes, you are quite right.....250 is the daily number of deaths on Tuesday 11th May in France ( 267 in Germany.)

Lucca

“ Put Party Politics aside “
?

Glad to be able to amuse Lucca ...but guess what, I would have sympathy for any PM from any political party that had to deal with the awful last year we have had.
Some posters obviously can’t see past political push me/ pull you and are either grudging with praise or give none at all, even where it’s due.

Yes but it’s not all about the pandemic is it? I wouldn’t vote for just anyone because they wore a red or green or yellow rosette but it’s always been clear to me,since I was young and so it in my own family , that many Conservative voters would vote for and praise anyone with a blue rosette as long as the tories stayed in power.

Also what do we make of a man who is a remainer and then switches tack and goes all out Brexit, makes a speech ridiculing the idea of ID cards and now has this as one of his policies ?

I really am sick to the teeth of people saying I criticise a particular party or politician because I don’t like them. I look at each politician and situation individually and will always give credit where credit is due.

Also re the pandemic situation I have often said I’d have actually liked to have thatcher in charge. She would have been a much more sensible leader......(and I could stand her !)

Chestnut

*Maizie D* The Nightingales were useless because there was no-one to staff them. The NHS was already short staffed and was stretched to breaking point and beyond.
Okay, what is your answer, how would you (and other critics) have dealt with the crisis, with too many patients and not enough nursing staff? I'm sure all those attacking Johnson for his approach would have handled the pandemic so much better. Do enlighten us.

This does seem to be a standard reply from some when they have already been answered. Strange but true. I'll try.

If we had had enough staff in the hospitals we would have saved more lives. Building the Nightingales was brilliantly done by all involved but the initial decision did not take all the facts into account. Similarly, building them in India would mean that people would be just going there to die - better than the street perhaps but still not providing more vaccine or oxygen.

Maybe we should stop saying we are short of "beds" and admit we are short of staff.

I remember the praise and acclamation for those countries building Covid hospitals and the cries of ‘Why don’t we do that here?

Some doctors in Italy suggested patients should be treated at home because their hospitals were overwhelmed. Perhaps we should have listened to that instead of building Nightingale hospitals.

Lucca it works both ways, there are many who would vote for the proverbial pig in a red rosette too.
I can see that ( for instance) M Thatcher’s government did some good things and so did T Blair’s government come to that. If Labour had been in power and done much the same as the present government I would praise them.
It’s oh so easy after the event to be critical, but the pandemic caused governments everywhere to tear their collective hair out.
Different countries took a different tack on some aspects of dealing with Covid, all were in trouble.

The CCJ against Mr Johnson was brought by a Left Wing activist, Yvonne Hobbs, with a history of vexatious claims. Ms.Hobbs is a Covid-19 conspiracy theorist

No.1O spokeswoman said ^ an application will be made for an order to set aside the default judgment, to strike out the claim and for a declaration that the claim is totally without merit^

This is all over internet today, awaiting BBC comments?

I thought it all sounded very odd GG13 so am not at all surprised.

Lucca

Also what do we make of a man who is a remainer and then switches tack and goes all out Brexit, makes a speech ridiculing the idea of ID cards and now has this as one of his policies ?

Perhaps he saw the error of his ways ?

As you were. Back to the gloom and doom. ?

Chestnut

*Maizie D* The Nightingales were useless because there was no-one to staff them. The NHS was already short staffed and was stretched to breaking point and beyond.
Okay, what is your answer, how would you (and other critics) have dealt with the crisis, with too many patients and not enough nursing staff? I'm sure all those attacking Johnson for his approach would have handled the pandemic so much better. Do enlighten us.

I know, I wish they would answer this. Frau Merkel started well, but at present numbers are rising, same in France and Spain. So no one PM, apart from Australia and NZ, have managed it no better.

Numbers are not rising in Germany, France or Spain.

Just stop making stuff up, folks, please.

At least, numbers are rising in the sense that the total of cases since this all started is higher today than it was yesterday. But that's the same in the UK and everywhere else!

www.graphics.reuters.com this site has Covid-19 tracker for EU and rest of the world.

There is little doubt that many European countries have made a hash of dealing with covid, especially difficult to explain why, after all the severe and draconian lock downs imposed in Spain, France, Italy, they then are very slow on getting their vaccine programmes up and running. This is worrying of course, but it does illustrate that each country within the Eu is responsible for their decisions regardning covid, so why are there still Tory MPs ( and GN members) spewing out the claims that we would have been unable to vaccinate as many as we have if we had still been in the EU? To give credit where it is due, the vaccine programme has been a huge success and something that the NHS and the battalion of volunteers can be proud of. Whether or not Johnson can be congratulated is a moot point and much debated.

Chestnut

Dinahmo The Nightingale Hospitals were a knee jerk reaction to the situation and ill considered.
I'm sure they could do with a few of those in India at the moment, so not ill considered at all. It was done in anticipation of a mass outbreak and showed foresight. I'm sure you would have been even more outraged if people had been dying in the road as there were no hospital beds.

Of course they could do with them in India - it would be good if they could be dismantled and shipped there. Johnson rushed to do something quickly without much thought and preparation. We all knew that the NHS was understaffed. Where did he think he was going to find hte stff for the Nightingale Hospitals?

lemongrove

Lucca it works both ways, there are many who would vote for the proverbial pig in a red rosette too.
I can see that ( for instance) M Thatcher’s government did some good things and so did T Blair’s government come to that. If Labour had been in power and done much the same as the present government I would praise them.
It’s oh so easy after the event to be critical, but the pandemic caused governments everywhere to tear their collective hair out.
Different countries took a different tack on some aspects of dealing with Covid, all were in trouble.

Spot on, Lemongrove, spot on. What we will never know is how Labour would have dealt with it. Would the death toll be any different and where would we be today? ?

I have not heard of anywhere / any hospital in the UK where patients who needed ventilation or other forms of Oxygen delivery where left to die on wards?

I can recommend a very good book, GG13. It's called 'Failures of the State'. It's all in there. From the Sunday Times Insight team, who've been investigating the government's covid strategies right from the start and published a few articles about it over the course of 2020.

Of course you won't have heard much, or anything at all about this because hospital staff were not allowed to speak out (though some did) and it was hotly denied that there was some sort of points system in use where if a patient scored higher than a certain score they were, to put it baldly, left to die. But it happened.