Anyone understand why Johnson is so far ahead in the polls? ( 2)

I think you’re right Callistemon, the further west you go in Wales the more Welsh it becomes, the border counties have a high percentage of English migrants, and Welsh people who travel to England for work. Border counties are also less cohesive communities as they centre around market towns, with rural industries and farming, so are naturally more wealthy and likely to attract people to vote Tory.

PS. That article is nonsense and conflates a number of issues.

Mollygo

“Growstuff in what ways”
Family, friends and colleagues experience of reduced pensions. But as I know that won’t be sufficient for you, try this link:
www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1692321/Has-Labour-really-ransacked-our-pensions.html

So how much, in reality, have people actually lost?

MerylStreep I have been to much worse places than Hartlepool. There is high unemployment and pockets of real deprivation, but it could be much worse.

“Growstuff in what ways”
Family, friends and colleagues experience of reduced pensions. But as I know that won’t be sufficient for you, try this link:
www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-1692321/Has-Labour-really-ransacked-our-pensions.html

The people in the Welsh Valleys are deprived because of all the heavy industry in the UK being closed, so employment levels are low. It’s a difficult dilemma for people, these are very strong communities, and people don’t want to leave their families. They are most certainly not ignorant or disinterested, and they don’t see themselves as victims in voting Labour, they do it because they are less self interested than many, and believe in social justice. I’m not from the Valleys myself, but I’m speaking as I find.

I do think that is an important factor. In areas where there have been population changes eg some border counties where people work in England but move to live in Wales, there is less of a tendency to vote Labour.

Potted history for anybody who is interested. Wales has never been a Tory stronghold, it was previously a Whig/Liberal voting part of the UK before the Labour Party came into being. I think it stems from centuries of oppression by England, which has resulted in a fundamental lack of trust in the Tory Party. In this election, although the Tories have won their highest vote share ever, the increase in the vote share by the Labour Party was higher than the increase by the Tories, at the expense of the Lib Dems and Plaid Cymru.

The people in the Welsh Valleys are deprived because of all the heavy industry in the UK being closed, so employment levels are low. It’s a difficult dilemma for people, these are very strong communities, and people don’t want to leave their families. They are most certainly not ignorant or disinterested, and they don’t see themselves as victims in voting Labour, they do it because they are less self interested than many, and believe in social justice. I’m not from the Valleys myself, but I’m speaking as I find.

Mark Drakeford is an academic not a showman, and the Labour Government here are not of the Corbyn school by any means, in fact there was a big fall out when he was in charge of the party. Welsh Labour has its own identity, which is much more akin to Starmer, although the priorities are clearer. Obviously Tory voters won’t agree, but I think that most people in Wales do trust the government here, they don’t shy away from admitting when they make mistakes, which of course they do like any party in power, there’s no obvious lies, bluster or game playing. They are also good at consensus, because we have part PR, which means the parties have to work together. Wales is a backwater for any Tory Government, so additional funding support is not forthcoming, as in the North of England.

One of the most interesting things about this election from an observer of what’s happening in Wales is that those who voted for Brexit haven’t all defaulted to Tory as they have in England - the light has dawned for a lot of people that Wales is a net loser from Brexit, and support for Labour has actually strengthened, not just held its own.

Mollygo

MayBee70, I don’t know Chestnut’s reasons, but Gordon Brown’s term in power was disastrous for a lot of current pensioners.

In what way(s)?

MayBee70

I’ll look into that. Thanks. But if that’s the case why are voters happy to vote for a party that is making them work for many more years.

No idea, but since no party has made a promise to reduce pension age if they are elected, or is likely to change that back, it really makes no difference to today’s voters.

I’ll look into that. Thanks. But if that’s the case why are voters happy to vote for a party that is making them work for many more years.

MayBee70, I don’t know Chestnut’s reasons, but Gordon Brown’s term in power was disastrous for a lot of current pensioners.

Chestnut

I would never vote Labour because I don't trust them with the economy. Simple as that.

Can I ask why? I have heard that it’s a myth that Labour leave the economy in a worse state. And the time that Cameron held up that note that was left in the treasury saying theres no money left was despicable because it was just a joke. We will have several years of more austerity cuts and then the Conservatives will miraculously find lots of money with which to promise all sort of things that then won’t even happen. We’ve had how many years of Conservative governments now and yet more and more people are depending on food banks and people are still sleeping on the streets. It took a young footballer to shame the government into caring about hungry children. So why do people seem to think that they’re so successful? What have they done that’s so great? I’d really like to know.

AGAA4

Maybe he should instead of spending so much time trying to discredit the Tories over wallpaper.

Good God. Cut the man a bit of slack for having a bit of a piss take.. probably taking all of ...ooooh 15 minutes?

After all, Johnson gets cut enough slack to hang himself and all of his Cabinet...

Chestnut that has always been my problem. I have been teetering on the edge of voting Labour all my life but never done it.

I thought with Gordon Brown we had the turn round - and he managed the economy very well for the first half of his tenure, but then even he could not resist Labour's besetting problem, wishful thinking. Thinking the economy was doing something because he wanted it to and thought it ought to.

Labour in Wales. My relatives in Wales (on DH’s side), have always voted Labour since back when his Granddad was a miner. They have voted Labour this time and I’m quoting from my BiL “Better the devil you know. They’re all in it for themselves so not much point in changing.”
He said a lot more, explaining his politics and what he sees as good and bad, and his opinion of both main parties but summed his vote up above.
He’s a university lecturer and his wife was a stay at home mum but is a now a practice receptionist just to clarify their place on the scale.

Perhaps this article may help some posters to understand.
Written by a someone born and bred in Hartlepool.
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9555399/Labour-blood-bone-left-hearts-says-RUTH-SUNDERLAND.html

Accentuating the positives instead of concentrating on the opposing party's negatives could be a good plan.

Maybe he should instead of spending so much time trying to discredit the Tories over wallpaper.

AGAA4

My question was why the disparity with England. I know Labour have been in power in Wales for a very long time but in England they are still so far behind. Why are they getting it so wrong? I am not a Labour supporter just interested.

Perhaps Starmer needs to come and chat with Drakeford.

I don't know
Anniebach may have more answers.

My question was why the disparity with England. I know Labour have been in power in Wales for a very long time but in England they are still so far behind. Why are they getting it so wrong? I am not a Labour supporter just interested.

I don't find Mark Drakeford very inspiring AGAA4 although he seems earnest and well-meaning and statistics for, for example, healthcare, jobs etc are not good in comparison to England.
However, a firm but sure programme during lockdown plus an excellent vaccination roll-out has helped, I'm sure.

It is more that entrenched attitudes are hard to change in some areas combined with a mistrust of the Tories.

That's true Anniebach

But of course Johnson is a very slogan-focussed politician and, like Trump demonstrated, if you keep repeating the same phrase again and again not only do you start to believe it but you persuade others that it's true.

For example, when he was asked how he would "Level Up" Johnson basically had no idea. But I've heard ordinary people on the radio say that the Conservatives are about Levelling up.

AGAA4

Labour have done very well here in Wales. People seem to like Mark Drakeford. So why the disparity with England?

I think it would take a seismic shift for Labour to lose Wales!

Or hell will freeze over.

I would never vote Labour because I don't trust them with the economy. Simple as that.

There has been little chance to hear from anyone in the shadow cabinet for the past 14 months