I do wonder- is this what the Brexiters wanted?

British farmers likely to be shafted.

What is going on? Australian farmers feel they are being given a raw deal by their own Government too as they make trade deals with countries to import food which is already produced in Australia.

Sounds as though the trade deal with Australia isn’t going very well. Civil war in the government and British farmers likely to be shafted.

sodapop

Sorry Callistemon just goes to show how easily messages can be misread. I agree about the red tape etc.
Not really a viable suggestion Ellianne

I can see how you thought I was applying that to your feelings.
Apologies again, it shows how easy it is to be misunderstood online.

As I say, we were due to have a holiday with DH's family in France over 2 years ago and one thing has happened after another to prevent this.

Sorry Callistemon just goes to show how easily messages can be misread. I agree about the red tape etc.
Not really a viable suggestion Ellianne

Are you really seriously suggesting this?

sodapop

Thanks Kali of course we will deal with the changes but it does make life more complicated. I am now feeling definitely like a foreigner here who has to account for family visitors. Apparently people staying in hotels, B&Bs etc do not need the form or those with second homes.
I do have concerns about what will be required next, its stress I didn't expect in my later years.

How would it work if your relatives booked into a hotel for the first night, and said they were touring around, then cancelled the booking once they arrived?

sodapop

Not sure why you find my feelings petty Callistemon

I didn't sodapop!
If you read it that way I apologise.

I find the red tape and bureaucracy petty.

icanhandthemback

How about equal opportunity for all countries when it comes to immigration controlled by our needs as a country. Why should Europeans have free movement but other country's can't? Obviously if all country's have free movement, we would be flooded so controlled immigration seems to me to be the best policy. In an ideal world we wouldn't have borders but we don't live in an ideal world.

So kind of you to vote to rectify this by removing freedoms that some of us were actually enjoying.

Not sure why you find my feelings petty Callistemon

I have a feeling you miss the point here, perhaps.

How about equal opportunity for all countries when it comes to immigration controlled by our needs as a country. Why should Europeans have free movement but other country's can't? Obviously if all country's have free movement, we would be flooded so controlled immigration seems to me to be the best policy. In an ideal world we wouldn't have borders but we don't live in an ideal world.

I am now feeling definitely like a foreigner here who has to account for family visitors

I do find that unbelievably petty, sodapop.
We had planned to go and stay with our French family but along came a couple of mishaps then came Covid; I'm not sure that we will ever get there now.

Just depends. The problem here is that the colour of the grass changed somehow, unexpectedly.

Kali True.

That happens so often, though, all over the world.
Please excuse the expression but Shit Happens.
It's how we deal with it that is important.

I have a friend whose DGP owned a hotel in India but had to leave; they started again in an African country where she was born but had to flee from there. The same with family who left Zimbabwe, friends who fled Uganda, DD's friend from Vietnam, other DD's friend from Bosnia.

The rug has shifted unexpectedly but it hasn't been pulled totally away, to use another metaphor

What is happening is a bureaucratic nuisance, some of it seems unbelievably petty and I hope all these difficulties can be ironed out.

Thanks Kali of course we will deal with the changes but it does make life more complicated. I am now feeling definitely like a foreigner here who has to account for family visitors. Apparently people staying in hotels, B&Bs etc do not need the form or those with second homes.
I do have concerns about what will be required next, its stress I didn't expect in my later years.

Lisagran

MaizieD

Lisagran

Just depends. The problem here is that the colour of the grass changed somehow, unexpectedly

Are you not in the UK, Kali2 ?

Poised to attack, Lisagran? Does it matter where she lives?

If you read the post again I think you'll find that 'the colour of the grass' is a metaphor, not a literal description.?

No, I’m not an “attacking” type of poster - just nosy! I was just wanting clarification - trying to get my head round the pros and cons of Brexit (I voted Remain)

I have made it very clear that this is not about me, but about empathy for those I know who have been planning for many many years to move to France, or Spain or Italy, spending all their time, effort and saving preparing for this- and now find it will be, perhaps not unsurmountable, but much much more difficult and costly.

And after talking ot others who were able to make the move and now find they just cannot drive- and the article they sent me from Connexion. Like the lady who tried to swap licence in preparation for Brexit- her licence returned as there was no need to do so- and now find that it is now compulsory- and find themselves without a licence and unable to swap. As said, empathy.

I don't remember seeking permission to go and stay long term with a French family in about 1963; perhaps they did.

I remember back when younger setting off with a couple of nights booked and then taking pot luck as we travelled around. Would that now be impossible ? If so I feel sorry for young people missing out on that fun,

Maggiemaybe

^Freedom of movement didn’t start until Maastricht 1992.^

Yes, Whitewavemark2, but more than one poster has mentioned things being so different before 1973.

Example: ^Since joining the EU in 1973 we have been used to freedom of movement. To come and go at will.^

True. We all get carried away?

Ellianne I don't know who gets to keep the euros. The form includes size of house, number of bedrooms etc. It will apply to visitors of second home owners too I understand. I am sure our daughter would still be able to get to us in an emergency, but spontaneous visits will not be possible. I feel very sad about that.

Freedom of movement didn’t start until Maastricht 1992.

Yes, Whitewavemark2, but more than one poster has mentioned things being so different before 1973.

Example: Since joining the EU in 1973 we have been used to freedom of movement. To come and go at will.

Since it's clear that Brexit has led to many changes, not just for travelling and moving to the EU, and that these changes have made and will make life difficult for many people/businesses, I would like to know what positive developments we can enjoy to compensate for our loss. In other words, what makes Brexit worthwhile? Please, give us something.

The suggestion that 'nothing is unsurmountable ',we just have to be positive, put a smile on our faces and embrace our new 'freedom' I find pathetic.

Mamie

It isn't that bit Razzy. If you stay in a pre-booked. hotel or gite then that is your proof. If you stay with family or friends then they have to go through this process. Also applies in Spain, in fact all of Schengen, though process will vary.

Mamie, in that case could it be like some form of taxation? Gîte owners, hotels, B & Bs and campsites all pay a tourist tax whereas staying with relatives you don't.
Does the 30 euros got to the commune? Can it be paid in cash?
Second home owners do not need the form to travel, just proof of ownership.

MaizieD

^No, I’m not an “attacking” type of poster - just nosy! I was just wanting clarification - trying to get my head round the pros and cons of Brexit (I voted Remain)^

I apologise, then, Lisagran.

I have watched a poster be completely bullied off the site for not being in the UK (and not being 'properly' British, only naturalised) and there was an attempt to identify Kali2 as her yesterday, apparently to start a pile in. I was a bit suspicious of that apparently innocent question. Apologies again...

Thank you

It isn't that bit Razzy. If you stay in a pre-booked. hotel or gite then that is your proof. If you stay with family or friends then they have to go through this process. Also applies in Spain, in fact all of Schengen, though process will vary.

Maggiemaybe

Working in the EU when the UK was a member wasn’t always the bureaucracy-free walk in the park some seem to remember. I lived and worked in Germany for two years in 1975/6. I’d to have a residence permit, a work permit, a full medical examination at my expense before I was allowed to join the health insurance scheme.

At first my work permit was refused on the basis that, despite statements from my German employer to the contrary, the job I was doing could be filled by a German national. When I protested that this shouldn’t be happening as we were in the European Community as it was then, I was told that I was subject to German law, not that of the EC. I had to get the British Embassy involved. Yes, that was a (supposed) error, but everyone had to have the two visas and the medical.

And I’ve spent the last six months trying to get the German pension I’m entitled to. From others in the same situation, I know that this could be a very long haul....

Freedom of movement didn’t start until Maastricht 1992.