Is Israel completely beyond any control?

What would you do if it was your country being attacked by terrorists?

Israel has always made it quite clear that an attack by terrorists will be countered by reprisals from Israel.

How does this differ from what the British did in Ulster in the 1970s?

Hamas are on the international list of terrorists - this seems to have escaped the notice of just about every supporter of the Palestinians.

Support whom you like, but acknowledge that every state in the world has the right to take measures to support its own citizens and sovereignty.

Clearly then the relationship between Israel and its neighbours were nowhere near normal after 1949 and tensions continued.

Israel had various skirmishes with its neighbours, always over land.

Egypt has closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping and this eventually erupted into the 3 day war June 1967.

Israel almost completely destroyed the Egyptian airforce.

worth watching

fb.watch/5wEAxyCOzG/

So trying to tackle the 1967. War

I am aware that there are historians amongst us and I would very much welcome their input if they feel so inclined?

Kali2

Urmstongran

Why? This is not our war.

Because we have been selling arms to them for a very long time, and because many Jewish settlers there are from UK and Europe too.

And because we can see massive injustice and ehtnic cleansing, and we are human beings.

The war against Hitler was not our war either- should we have done nothing?

Well said, KAli2 ?

Nothing to do with antisemitism - at all.

But if you think what is happening is going to help fight antisemitism, then you are very wrong.

Urmstongran

Why? This is not our war.

Because we have been selling arms to them for a very long time, and because many Jewish settlers there are from UK and Europe too.

And because we can see massive injustice and ehtnic cleansing, and we are human beings.

The war against Hitler was not our war either- should we have done nothing?

This is a map that shows how much land the Palestinians have had taken from then.

Soon, they will be gone. We are witnessing the extermination of the Palestinian people.

How can this be right? Of course, Israel has a right to exist. But it is obvious what is happening and I fear no one will step in to stop any further erosion.

I understand that there has been a long history of antisemitism and that often spills over into a dislike/hatred of Israel.

It's not antisemitism that makes me dislike intensely what Israel is doing. It is dislike of what they are doing. The fact that they are Jews has nothing to do with it.

Baggs

Well done, loislovesstewie. There are indeed two sides to every issue. All the good is never on just one side, neither all the bad.

Yes, there are two sides, which is precisely why it isn't a good idea to accuse people of not understanding history.

BTW As a deliberate strategy, I actually try to use my brain and not take sides.

I don't "not understand history" either Loislovesstewie, so your confrontational accusation is inaccurate and not helpful.

Well done, loislovesstewie. There are indeed two sides to every issue. All the good is never on just one side, neither all the bad.

Loislovesstewie

BTW I don't need a history lesson. I understand how/why/when the modern state was proclaimed. I understand that there has been a long history of antisemitism and that often spills over into a dislike/hatred of Israel. Furthermore, I also find that today a huge amount of people do take the side of Palestine and ignore what Palestine does to Israel i.e. sending rockets over r indiscriminately. And I don't see the world as binary; I am quite capable of understanding that Palestinians have a very tough life, particularly as there have been no elections there for donkeys' years. If you want a solution then come up with something.
BTW, don't we all take sides every single day? Isn't that what happens in any debate. Northern Ireland? How do we stand on that? should it still be part of the UK? What about any separatist movement? would we debate that and take sides? Or would we just fiddle faddle about not doing anything, wringing our hands, sort of like the Mandate really!? Trying to appease everybody, let some Jews in but not enough to make a difference, hope that will sort it out but give no thought to the thousands/millions who will follow? Talk about a dog's breakfast!

I wasn't going to comment on this thread because, you know, the minute I exhibited a bit of sympathy for Israel I knew I would be getting my head bitten off.
But then I thought; no. I am going to stand up for them because I don't think anyone else will.

I’m not sure that you can say that posters do not recognise Israeli’s right to exist as an independent state.

But I do think many people think that the Israeli government has made some very bad decisions regarding the Palestinians and should be censured because of what many consider war crimes.

The Israeli population should be able to live in peace alongside their neighbours, but I think that they are at present very badly served by Netanyahu.

BTW I don't need a history lesson. I understand how/why/when the modern state was proclaimed. I understand that there has been a long history of antisemitism and that often spills over into a dislike/hatred of Israel. Furthermore, I also find that today a huge amount of people do take the side of Palestine and ignore what Palestine does to Israel i.e. sending rockets over r indiscriminately. And I don't see the world as binary; I am quite capable of understanding that Palestinians have a very tough life, particularly as there have been no elections there for donkeys' years. If you want a solution then come up with something.
BTW, don't we all take sides every single day? Isn't that what happens in any debate. Northern Ireland? How do we stand on that? should it still be part of the UK? What about any separatist movement? would we debate that and take sides? Or would we just fiddle faddle about not doing anything, wringing our hands, sort of like the Mandate really!? Trying to appease everybody, let some Jews in but not enough to make a difference, hope that will sort it out but give no thought to the thousands/millions who will follow? Talk about a dog's breakfast!

I wasn't going to comment on this thread because, you know, the minute I exhibited a bit of sympathy for Israel I knew I would be getting my head bitten off.
But then I thought; no. I am going to stand up for them because I don't think anyone else will.

Absolutely, and that climate resulted in a collective faith fleeing their respective homelands to try and find peace and freedom from persecution.

I am sure that the original intention of the zionists was not to wrestle control from the Arabs but to co-exist alongside them just as other Jews in Palestine had done for ever.

The "history" of Israel goes back centuries before the holocaust. It goes back to a climate where racism (anti-semiticism) was tolerated and people turned a blind eye to persecution. It was based on the kind of tribalism which accepted the stereotypes of Jews. Without that climate, the holocaust, pogroms and other forms of anti-semiticism couldn't have been tolerated. The history involves values, which unfortunately still exist today, except that other people are more often the target.

I am not "taking sides". The situation does not have any easy solutions, but I am not going to accept that Palestinians are to blame for what's happening. Historically, they have had their land stolen from them and they weren't responsible for what happened in Europe for centuries. Both sides need to come to an acceptable agreement - goodness knows how that will happen, but killing people by using a far superior military force is not the answer.

The war lasted until February 1949 when an armistice was declared and peace resumed. Israel had gained some ground originally earmarked for the Palestinians, but nevertheless this peace lasted until 1967.

growstuff

Unlike you Loislovesstewie, I (and many other people) don't see the world in binary. It's not a question of taking sides - life is more complicated than that.

Yes that’s why I’m trotting through the recent history, for my sake as much as anyone’s as nothing is simple particularly in the Palestinian conflict.

You simple can’t say it is all the fault if one side or the other, but you can understand more fully if you are open to the history and willing to absorb it.

So Israel declared an independent state in May 1948, and the civil war that was taking place between Arab and Jew continued resulting in the first war between the Arab and Israeli states.

As a result of this war. 700000 Palestinians fled or were expelled from their homeland, resulting in what they now call “the catastrophe” they became refugees, and still consider themselves as such.

Immediately after Israel declared itself an independent state hundreds of thousands of Jewish folk emigrated to what they saw as “the promised land”

Unlike you Loislovesstewie, I (and many other people) don't see the world in binary. It's not a question of taking sides - life is more complicated than that.

if you can't understand that history had made the modern state of Israel what it is, then I give up!

How insulting! Of course I understand that "history" has made the modern state of Israel and I would imagine that most people understand that too. Nevertheless, there is no excuse for how the modern state of Israel is now behaving. Two wrongs don't make a right!

It must also be remembered that many Jews throughout the world argued against the injustice of the partition.
It was by no means universally popular with Jews.

Why is no one standing up for the Palestine people. Where atrocities occurred worldwide there was a stand made.

Israeli air strikes attacked a girl's neighbour eight children and two woman killed, 10 year Palistinian girl said I don't know what to do.

Several countries demonstrated against Israeli occupation

There is a Palistinian flag hanging from a window near where I live It was good to see solidarity with the Palestinian people.

Conflict or massacre

Educate yourself!!!
#PalestineBleeding #Palestine

Palistinian No Army No navy No airforce.

twitter.com/tomoonandsatur1/status/1393832872302186498?s=20

So the cessation of the British mandate in 1948 and the unresolved issue in Palestine meant that the U.N became involved, prior to this.

The collective world conscience sought reparation for what the Jews had suffered in the Holocaust and the idea of a separate Jewish state was born.

The United recommended separate states for Jews and Arabs.

Partition of the land of Palestine.

Special regime for the Holy city of Jerusalem.

The Jews accepted this plan but the Arabs rejected any partition of their land. This resulted in civil war.

It was decided to put to the vote, but after hard filibustering by Zionist Jews, who feared that the vote would go against them, the vote was delayed and the zionists launched an intense Whitehouse lobby to have the plan endorsed.

In the event 72% of the vote supported the un plan for partition.

So the Arabs, who at the beginning of the century were a settled nation of farmers, had now forcibly lost much of their land and state.