Is Israel completely beyond any control?

There won’t be any sanctions on Israel and this violence will be repeated. This has been the pattern for the past decades and until there is proper discussion and some agreement it will be ongoing. More is the pity.

I can’t see any sanctions on Israel to be honest. In fact I can’t see how this is going to end realistically.

As for GB selling arms to various countries........governments/politics is a very dirty business. The human cost is truly dreadful but how to stop it?

Thanks Grany andgrowstuff The huge contrast between the actions of government and people is shocking, Let's hope the people prevail.

Thanks growstuff.
I follow France 24 too - I find they give a wide and relatively balanced reports on international events.
Compared with our press.
And I love Francois Picard !

Some positive moves by the people themselves:

www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20210518-against-backdrop-of-gaza-violence-israel-s-jews-and-arabs-join-forces-for-peace?fbclid=IwAR1HnuE7cAOwiNc8Kdk6E64Td6WXVdzTqTqguQfznMVtnNlLYl_zARbvyzA

How Britain Supports Israel's War on Palestine | Downstream

m.youtube.com/watch?v=hxgqlUIRetM

Yes. Definitely time for diplomatic pressure and economic sanctions.

Israel colonises to increase its own powers of economic growth.

There is a precedent in the colonisation of Palestine by Rome at the time of Jesus, and later, by the British mandate.

Israel blatantly stole Palestinians's houses and farms. The state of Palestine is not recognised by the present right wing regime in Israel .

Diplomatic pressure and economic sanctions are the only means of reining-in Israeli greed, unless there arise a Palestinian messiah like Gandhi did for India.

tickingbird

It isn’t fact. It’s propaganda. Many Palestinians live in fear of Hamas. It was much the same in Northern Ireland with the IRA. Hamas are no friends to the Palestinians.

Many people in N Ireland lived in fear of British soldiers and Unionist (often miscalled Loyalist) forces as well. I suppose you aren't going to argue that that means there is no DUP or British government?
There is a political wing of Hamas and a social services wing

Hamas developed its social welfare programme by replicating the model established by Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood. For them, charity and the development of one's community are prescribed by religion, and, at the same time, are to be understood as forms of resistance.[58] In Islamic tradition dawah (lit.'the call to God') obliges the faithful to reach out to others by both proselytising and by charitable works, and typically the latter centre on the mosques which make use of both waqf endowment resources and charitable donations (zakat, one of the five pillars of Islam) to fund grassroots services like nurseries, schools, orphanages, soup kitchens, women's activities, library services and even sporting clubs within a larger context of preaching and political discussions.[59] In the 1990s, some 85% of its budget was allocated to the provision of social services.[60] It has been called perhaps the most significant social services actor in Palestine. By 2000 it or its affiliated charities ran roughly 40% of the social institutions in the West Bank and Gaza and, with other Islamic charities, by 2005 was supporting 120,000 individuals with monthly financial support in Gaza
And in fact when Hamas took over the administration of Gaza they stopped much gang related violenceand corruption
Hamas assumed the administration of Gaza following its electoral victory and introduced radical changes. It inherited a chaotic situation of lawlessness, since the economic sanctions imposed by Israel, the US and the Quartet had crippled the PA's administrative resources, leading to the emergence of numerous mafia-style gangs and terror cells modeled after Al Qaeda.

As well as to Isreal Britain sells arms and equipment to other oppressive regimes including Saudi Arabia knowing these are used to kill Yemenis This is a British war. There is no restrictions placed on how these weapons are used.

Please, please Listen

Andrew Feinstein EXPOSES British arms companies and the government complicit in supplying weapons to Israel. #Gaza #SaveSheikhJarrah #FreePalestine #BDS

twitter.com/florestaqueen/status/1393814549921517569?s=20

It isn’t fact. It’s propaganda. Many Palestinians live in fear of Hamas. It was much the same in Northern Ireland with the IRA. Hamas are no friends to the Palestinians.

tickingbird

^Hammas has a political wing which was elected as the governing party in Gaza. They have the support of many Palestinians^

You think Trisher?

Hamas are terrorists with an agenda and it certainly isn’t peace in that area. They’d love nothing more than all out war in the middle east. Arabs are very tribal people and have always fought their battles. If Israel didn’t exist there still wouldn’t be peace.

It is a fact that Hamas has a political wing. It also has a social division that runs schools and provides social support. It's not something I think. It is a fact.

Hammas has a political wing which was elected as the governing party in Gaza. They have the support of many Palestinians

You think Trisher?

Hamas are terrorists with an agenda and it certainly isn’t peace in that area. They’d love nothing more than all out war in the middle east. Arabs are very tribal people and have always fought their battles. If Israel didn’t exist there still wouldn’t be peace.

Have the Israeli govt allowed any Palestinians to be Covid-vaccinated yet?

Of course you can have an opposing view but then I am entirely entitled to think that view is prejudiced. You have constantly quoted Hamas as being typical or the only opinion Palestinians hold. Gaza is controlled by Hamas but there are Palestinians living in Israel who are not. Those people at least should be given democratic rights and should not be subjected to abuse by police and military forces as they were at the beginning of May. Or is gassing children and spraying them with chemicals OK because they are Palestinian?

As there have been no elections in Palestine for 15 years we don't really know what Palestinians think about Hamas do we? We only know what is the situation at present, and that is that Hamas controls it. The recent scheduled elections have been deferred. Guess who deferred them?
I said, originally, that I came on this thread to support Israel and that is what I am doing.
If we are debating a topic then I should be allowed to give an opposing view and, again, that is what I am doing.
I do not hold any prejudice towards Palestinians. I don't, however, support Islamist organizations, for reasons that I would have thought obvious.
And I realize that there are different views within Judaism on Palestine as there are on any topic. I do have friends In Israel who tell me their views and there is a huge difference between them.
If I said that any poster here was prejudiced against Jews because of their comments, what would you say? I have not made that comment; I have stated that there is a lot of antisemitism in the world and that, often, criticism of Israel tips over into antisemitism.
I was told earlier that I was taking a binary view of the situation, I would ask if anyone else is guilty of that?

Loislovesstewie

Sorry but I really don't think that Hamas would advocate human rights for Jews in Israel ever!

Hamas is not every single Palestinian. Any more than every Jew is a Zionist. All your continued posting about Hamas does Lls is show that you hold a great deal of prejudice towards Palestinians

I think the long discussed two state solution can no longer go ahead given that much of the lands agreed and set aside for the Palestinians have already been much encroached on by military might and settlers.

We know why Israel came about, and and most reasonable people would have no problem with that, but don’t you think Palestinians who lived and farmed those lands for hundreds of years would also like somewhere to call home too.

Sorry but I really don't think that Hamas would advocate human rights for Jews in Israel ever!

Loislovesstewie

I would like a 2 state solution.
It seems to me that many people would like to see an end to a Jewish state of Israel and that is exactly why it was set up; to be a place where Jews would not be subjected to a second Holocaust.

I don't think suggesting that it is undemocratic and inconsistent with human rights to deny one section of a population their basic rights can in anyway be regarded as even considering a "second Holocaust", quite the reverse. Those who advocate consideration and human rights for one group of people will usually support the human rights of others.

I would like a 2 state solution.
It seems to me that many people would like to see an end to a Jewish state of Israel and that is exactly why it was set up; to be a place where Jews would not be subjected to a second Holocaust.

Loislovesstewie

Israel was established as a Jewish homeland.

Does that justify denying democratic rights to people because they are not Jewish?
Can such a country be called democratic?

Israel was established as a Jewish homeland.

EllanVannin

tickingbird

Hamas have no respect for Palestinians. They are terrorist thugs who use the poor people of Palestine as pawns in their power games. They deliberately fire on Israel in order to provoke a response.

So right.

Well the best examples of victim blaming yet! It isn''t Hamas who have closed the borders of Gaza. It wasn't Hamas who attacked peaceful Palestinian demonstrators. It wasn't Hamas who made (and still are making) Palestinian refugees and it isn't Hamas who are refusing those refugees the right to return to their own land.

The state of Israel refuses to allow Palestinian refugees to exercise their natural, legal and historic right to return citing three main arguments; first, that there is no space in Israel for the refugees to return, second, that the return of Palestinian refugees would threaten security and lead to conflict, and finally, that the return of the refugees would jeopardize the Jewish nature of the state. With regards to the first argument, recent research shows that 80% of the Jewish population of present-day ‘Israel’ resides on 15% of the land. The areas where Palestinian villages were demolished lie mainly uninhabited. Hence there is space. As for security concerns, Palestinian refugees broadly accept that exercising their right to return would not be based on the eviction of Jewish citizens but on the principles of equality and human rights. The final argument though is a testament to Israel’s false claim that it is the only democracy in the Middle East. Israel is a democracy for Jews only, and this religion-based discrimination or oxymoron should not be confused with real democracy.