Political implications of Johnson's Catholicisim

Bodach

"The point is if he isn't a Catholic then his previous marriages count as do the divorces, so it seems he must be saying he is a Catholic and those marriages and divorces don't prevent him marrying in a Catholic church. If he wasn't a Catholic then he would have to have the previous marriages annulled, which of course he might have. I believe it is easier to do than it used to be."
Dear 'theworriedwell', I think you (and several others) are missing the point. Since neither of Boris's previous marriages took place in a Catholic church, then - so far as the Catholic Church authorities are concerned - these marriages had no religious standing whatsoever, and did not therefore need to be annulled. The only information currently in the public domain is that Boris was born and initially raised a Catholic, but was subsequently confirmed into the CofE at school. Now, he may still be CofE; he may have rejoined the Catholic church; or he may even have finally seen the light and come over to the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland (unlikely, in this context at least) - we simply don't know (and why should we?) But, as I understand it, all he (or anyone else) had to do to get married to a Catholic lady in a Catholic church was to agree that any children would be raised in the Catholic faith.

If he was a Catholic the other marriages are not recognised. If he wasn't a Catholic they are. I think you are the one missing the point.

Marydoll
Is it universal that a child can choose a sponsor at confirmation who may be a different person from the godparents?
This is what DGS did but I'm not sure if that is a tradition of the church?

Kali thank you for taking the time to enlighten me, but there was really no need to have wasted your energy. I am more than au fait with the Rite of Baptism and the Sacraments of the Church.
May I ask from where you sourced your information?

As Parish sacristan for more than thirty years, involved in many Baptisms, trainer of altar servers, class teacher of many First Communion and Confirmation classes in a Roman Catholic School, holder of a Post Grad certificate in Catholic Religious Education and Bishop's approval to teach in a Roman Catholic school, etc. etc, I have a basic idea of how things work.

As long as one godparent has been baptized a Catholic, the other can be a Christian Witness, (the term recorded on the certificate), with both names recorded on the baptismal certificate and parish register. Also both godparents, Catholic and Christian stand with the parents and priest at the font.
Perhaps things are different in Switzerland, where I think you live.
By the way, you forgot to mention that we also renew our baptismal vows at Confirmation.

Septimus?

Pregnant again ???

I think his children are not too bothered about not being recognised by the Catholic Church - if it did not mean that he and his 3rd wife don't recognise them either.

A small private wedding with no harassment from the press pack was the correct thing to do as we come to the end of 14 months of various degrees of lockdowns.

I'm deeply relieved that he had a small private wedding as I was dreading all the fuss next year when they were supposedly planning to get married, but I'm curious as to why they suddenly decided to get married now.

MayBee70

How can a wedding in the largest Catholic Church (cathedral?) in the country be regarded as small? I bet there will still be a huge part next year (if we’re not in lockdown again....). Interesting that the news was leaked first to the Telegraph and the Sun.

Numbers attending = small

How can a wedding in the largest Catholic Church (cathedral?) in the country be regarded as small? I bet there will still be a huge part next year (if we’re not in lockdown again....). Interesting that the news was leaked first to the Telegraph and the Sun.

winterwhite

I've missed the answer to Aspen's point about banns. If they were read out on 3 consecutive Sundays someone would surely have noticed. If not ? special licence, but that sounds a bit shame-faced. Sorry if I've missed something.

I think a special licence was probably applied for (just a guess).
A small private wedding with no harassment from the press pack was the correct thing to do as we come to the end of 14 months of various degrees of lockdowns.

I am not an admirer of Boris Johnson, but am quite sure he's done his homework on this - and had plenty of advice.

Marydoll

*Kali*, Worriedwell is correct in what she stated.
As someone, who before lockdown, was involved in preparing paperwork for Catholic baptisms, I can confirm not every god parent has to be a practising Catholic. Times have changed.

Of course you can have extra Godparents - but those who stand in the Catholic Church, in front of the Catholic Priest:

WHAT DO WE PROMISE through our Godparents in Baptism?

We promise through our godparents in Baptism to renounce the devil, and to live according to the teachings of Christ and of His Church.

The godparents make the responses for an infant being baptized. These are called the baptismal vows. By them the person renounces Satan and all his works and pomps; that is, sin and all occasions.

1. To the first three questions, we reply through our godparents in Baptism. “I do renounce him (or them).” To the last three questions we reply, “I do believe.”

(1) Do you renounce Satan? (2) And all his works? (3) And all his display?

(4) Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth? (5) Do you believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord, who was born into the world and suffered for us? (6) And do you believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

2. We should renew our baptismal vows after the blessing of the baptismal font at Easter Vigil service. We should also renew them on our First Communion day, on New Year’s Day, and after a mission or spiritual retreat.

I've missed the answer to Aspen's point about banns. If they were read out on 3 consecutive Sundays someone would surely have noticed. If not ? special licence, but that sounds a bit shame-faced. Sorry if I've missed something.

Listening to his biographer yesterday he seemed of the opinion that Johnson prefers women friends and uses them to guide his thinking and act as sounding boards. However, so far they have stopped being his friends when he has married them and he has needed to replace them with a new one. As has been said, often, when you marry the mistress you create a vacancy.

62Granny

Typically be is bending the rules to suit himself, when will this man be called out as a liar and a cheat both in his public and private life, also if Carrie is now his wife, she cannot be called to give evidence against him , makes you think!!

I think that was ended in Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984; changes had been made over the years from 1853 as before that the wife was not seen as competent to give evidence for or against her husband. It's complicated so happy to be told differently. It looks to me that the only time a spouse cannot be called to testify is if they are an active co-defendant to the charge.

So basically he can do what he likes as long as he produces more Catholics?

"The point is if he isn't a Catholic then his previous marriages count as do the divorces, so it seems he must be saying he is a Catholic and those marriages and divorces don't prevent him marrying in a Catholic church. If he wasn't a Catholic then he would have to have the previous marriages annulled, which of course he might have. I believe it is easier to do than it used to be."
Dear 'theworriedwell', I think you (and several others) are missing the point. Since neither of Boris's previous marriages took place in a Catholic church, then - so far as the Catholic Church authorities are concerned - these marriages had no religious standing whatsoever, and did not therefore need to be annulled. The only information currently in the public domain is that Boris was born and initially raised a Catholic, but was subsequently confirmed into the CofE at school. Now, he may still be CofE; he may have rejoined the Catholic church; or he may even have finally seen the light and come over to the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland (unlikely, in this context at least) - we simply don't know (and why should we?) But, as I understand it, all he (or anyone else) had to do to get married to a Catholic lady in a Catholic church was to agree that any children would be raised in the Catholic faith.

The fact that they are married won't stop her testifying if she turns against him. If she ever does she'll make Cummings look like a fairy godmother.

What worries me is how much influence this woman has over Johnson and his decision making. She has already influenced his choice in press secretary, in fact demanded that her chosen one would be appointed. It seems to me that Symonds was the main reason for Cummings leaving ( or being sacked). And reading the Arcuri version of their relationship he is not the strong confident person that his adoring fans think he is.

Typically be is bending the rules to suit himself, when will this man be called out as a liar and a cheat both in his public and private life, also if Carrie is now his wife, she cannot be called to give evidence against him , makes you think!!

Kali, Worriedwell is correct in what she stated.
As someone, who before lockdown, was involved in preparing paperwork for Catholic baptisms, I can confirm not every god parent has to be a practising Catholic. Times have changed.

Would love a link to this, please- not what I was taught.

A Christian Witness as to be 'Christian' I suppose. I know very many people who have agreed to be God Parents, in Church, be it CofE or Catholic, who are not Christian at all.

Have the Johnsons rewritten the basic rules of the marriage ceremony? I thought to marry in church the banns had to be read out during three consecutive weeks in order that any objections may be lodged by the congregation. If the marriage is to take place in a Registry Office a notice is posted outside the building for three weeks.

Any wedding I have attended the minister/vicar always asks if anybody knows of any reason why the ceremony shouldn't take place. with a selective group of 30 friends and family there was little chance of that. Are the rules different in the Catholic Church?

The thought of Boris having marriage instruction from a celibate priest is an interesting concept.

I am so glad that I am a humanist when I read all this nonsense.

You need a confirmed Catholic God parent as the sponsor, but a baptised person of another denomination can act as a God parent but are officially called a Christian Witness. Well that was what I was taught.

My mother wasn't a Catholic. My father died when we were children, she brought us up as Catholics as she had promised to do. She sent us to Catholic schools, sent us to Mass, attended significant events, First Communion, Confirmation.